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-- Topica Digest --
From Rick Ross' News...
By sufrito53 yahoo.com
RE: Former Australian Waldorf Student
By sufrito53 yahoo.com
RE: Former Australian Waldorf Student
By ickyickyzobang hotmail.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 02:40:03 +0000
From: Su (sufrito53 yahoo.com)
Subject: From Rick Ross' News...
Hey guys, I thought he was an academic....
-Su
Cult apologist dead
Jeffrey Hadden 66, who taught religious studies at the University of
Virginia, died this past Sunday of cancer, reports Associated Press.
The AP says the professor's "work promoted religious tolerance."
However, Hadden can instead easily be seen as a "cult apologist" who
focused much of his energy in later life on defending groups called
"cults."
Hadden worked closely with Rev. Moon's Unification Church and was
recommended as an expert by Scientology.
However, Hadden insisted that such groups not be called "cults," but
instead "new religious movements."
A confidential memo written by Hadden during 1989 and later made public
revealed a network of academics, scholars and related operatives who
sought to neutralize and/or discredit criticism of cults. Hadden hoped
that these efforts might be funded by "cult" organizations.
Academics like Hadden, became increasingly controversial and some
scholars saw them as a source for potential "public scandal."
Rutgers Professor of Sociology Benjamin Zablocki said, "The sociology of
religion can no longer avoid the unpleasant ethical question of how to
deal with the large sums of money being pumped into the field by the
religious groups being studied...in the form of subvention of research
expenses, subvention of publications, opportunities to sponsor and
attend conferences, or direct fees for services, this money is not
insignificant, and its influence on research findings and positions
taken on scholarly disputes is largely unknown. This is an issue that is
slowly but surely building toward a public scandal."
Jeffrey Hadden was the recipient of such "sums of money." One example is
his defense of Scientology as a paid expert in court.
Hadden's website, which the AP refers to as a "comprehensive" resource
about "religious movements," was actually a part of the professor's
ongoing effort to defend "cults" and discredit their critics.
The AP claims Hadden believed in "tolerance and freedom," but he was
often intolerant of former cult members that exposed abuses and his
confidential memo does not seem to encourage freedom of expression, at
least not for those who disagreed with his views.
During the 90s as acts of cult violence, scandal, suicide and/or abuse
became more commonplace, Hadden's apologies rang hollow. And
subsequently his importance and influence as an objective serious
scholar waned.
In the end, though some "cults" may lament the loss of a friend and
defender, much of Jeffrey Hadden's work as an academic scholar seems
suspect.
[Posted by Rick Ross at 10:34 AM] [Link]
It ain't over 'til it's over--Yogi Berra
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 02:56:05 +0000
From: Su (sufrito53 yahoo.com)
Subject: RE: Former Australian Waldorf Student
Daniel wrote:
)
)
) Hiya again, thanks for the welcome, I actually dont know much about how
) it
) came to Australia, but i dont believe i ever met Alan. I think that my
) experiences were minor to my brother, who felt and was treated like a
) mentally handicapped person, he truly thort that he was stupid because
) of
) how he was treated especially by one teacher, who made examples out of
) him
) for no obvious reason, sure this is not a fault of the system directly i
)
) think but it seems linked because of the way the teacher thort. I
) disliked
) many aspects of the schooling system, but some seemed to be heading in
) the
) right direction. I didnt like how u had to paint or draw or make the
) same
) thing out of clay as everyone else, it allowed no creativity and i
) disliked
) haveing to use certain colours things like that seemed pointless to me
) and
) certainly didnt help my education personally and my brother agrees with
) me.
) When I went to my new school I adjusted very well, I think this by the
) way
) my parents brought me up and taught me how to deal with lifes
) challanges. I
) enjoy my new school greatly of the new found freedom i had, the teachers
) and
) parents always brought across at waldorf that the system and methods of
) teaching were beneficial and all had a reason, but some very few to me
) had
) any real purpose. I can explain alot more but if anyone wants me too
) please
) tell me so i can be more specific.
)
) thanks again, Daniel Benbow
Dear Daniel,
Thanks for posting. It has been rare to have many former Waldorf
students on this board, who are willing to openly discuss what happened
to them in the W. Schools. Having met young people from other cult-like
environments, I can say that what you describe in terms of the values
that were foisted on you by the school,and how you suffered, is common
for those children and youths coming out of cults. When you leave the
cult, it may be like leaving a foreign country. Wonder if that was true
for you?
Your description of being angry at the school for isolating you from
other ways of expression, artistic endeavor, and learning is also
similar to the feelings of other young people coming out of cults into
the real world where there are choices. One begins to realize how many
missed opportunities there were... Sounds like you got out in time,
however.
We're glad you are here, and would love to hear more about the ways in
which the school influenced you and your brother.
Thanks,
Su
It ain't over 'til it's over--Yogi Berra
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:55:35 +1030
From: "Dan ." (ickyickyzobang hotmail.com)
Subject: RE: Former Australian Waldorf Student
Heya, well to your point about me getting out of the environment I think you
are correct, that we left in time, but also I am proud to say the way I have
been raised I never let other people change me or the way I think, and I
think even when I was in the system and being as young as I was i definitly
thought something wasnt quite right. I really cant describe how its effect
my brother maybe I will get him to come and write his opinions because I
know he feels very strongly, being made an example of specifically because
of his teachers dislike for him, not being allowed to go to the lavatory
because he didnt know something, sure he wasnt allowed to keep my brother in
the class but my brother was terrified, things like this really make me
angry and I want to tell everyone I met not to put their kids in the system.
The reason for which we left the school was because my brother happened to
be off school premises smoking pot with his friends on the same night as a
year 12 dance or something, they were caught by some farmer and he reported
it to the school. Sure this doesnt seem like much of a crime, but before the
night was through most of the students off premises were expelled and only
my brother and a friend were not expelled, how ever he was being further
instigated and my parents felt this was stupid so we left before any further
action took place because they my parents felt it was unjustified, also the
teacher who was primaly involved in expelling ect, she was the year 12 class
teacher looking after the year 12 student who were all drunk on school
premises mind you nothing was mentioned about this.
regards, Daniel Benbow
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
-- Topica Digest --
RE: Former Australian Waldorf Student
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 18:06:40 +1030
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: RE: Former Australian Waldorf Student
At 01-02-03 01:55 PM Saturday, Daniel wrote:
)Heya, well to your point about me getting out of the environment I think
)you are correct, that we left in time, but also I am proud to say the way
)I have been raised I never let other people change me or the way I think,
)and I think even when I was in the system and being as young as I was i
)definitly thought something wasnt quite right.
That must have been a *very* disconcerting and uncomfortable feeling! I
know that my own daughter does not cope well with being around people who
try to talk to her about things that she knows to be at odds with reality
(like treating fairies and Santa as if they are real), and she is only just
turned 6 - I can only imagine what it must have been like for you to be in
an environment that actually used such traditional cult-control tactics as
denial of bathroom privileges, while remaining independent in your beliefs
and thinking. I am very glad to have spared my daughter more than a brief
taste of that, and wish I'd known better, sooner, so I am very grateful to
you for being honest and up-front with people about your experience.
)I really cant describe how its effect my brother maybe I will get him to
)come and write his opinions because I know he feels very strongly, being
)made an example of specifically because of his teachers dislike for him,
)not being allowed to go to the lavatory because he didnt know something,
This is the kind of thing that makes it so scary to go from that kind of
environment to reading up on cult experiences, as you see your own
experience described point by point in a list of cult methods of social
control. Have you seen any of this information, such as that found
at: http://www.refocus.org/ ?
Personally, I think that this social control is one of the key
distinguishing elements of a damaging cult; as for the non-damaging ones,
I really don't care what people believe, as long as they're not hurting
anyone as a result of those beliefs. So when I talk about "cult social
controls", I should make it clear that I am actually using a sort of verbal
shorthand for the concept of "the social control methods used by those
cults which actually attempt to exert control over their members'
behaviours through social methods, which is a serious risk factor for a
cult, greatly raising the likelihood that the cult will be a damaging one".
)sure he wasnt allowed to keep my brother in the class but my brother was
)terrified,
This is a truly horrific example of the way that ignorance of other
environments contributes to the ease with which a person can be victimized,
which I have long considered to be one of the key risks created by raising
children in a cult or cult-like environment. Your brother was terrified,
because this adult had power over him. Now, technically, the law (*and
possibly even the school's written policies*) said that the teacher didn't
have the right to do this - but because your brother did not know that, or
have access to a way to enforce that, he was made the victim of some very
serious and damaging behaviour.
)things like this really make me angry
GOOD!!! Things like this are worth being angry about, to the point where
it scares and worries me when/if I meet a person who is not angered by the
abuse of children.
)and I want to tell everyone I met not to put their kids in the system.
Please do! I only wish I had met someone who had given me this kind of
first-person account, before it became us warning others about the problems
which we had encountered.
)The reason for which we left the school was because my brother happened to
)be off school premises smoking pot with his friends on the same night as a
)year 12 dance or something, they were caught by some farmer and he
)reported it to the school. Sure this doesnt seem like much of a crime,
Daniel, may I ask what state you were in at the time? Our American list
members may not understand the differences in social climate between
Australia and the US on this point, and before I undertake to try to
explain, it would help a lot if I knew whether we were talking about
Queensland (where the laws and social climate are only slightly more
relaxed than those of the US, on this point), or somewhere like South
Australia (which is tightening up, but which has for some years dealt with
"personal possession" and cultivation of small quantities of "pot" by way
of a ticketing system, similar in nature and legal seriousness to a traffic
offense), or New South Wales (which, like certain US states, but without
the same conflict with federal law, has a Medical Cannabis law).
In much of the US (in the current era), it would be taken for granted that
this offense was serious enough to require suspension or expulsion for
*all* the students involved; the attitude here in Australia, however, is
much different, and should be taken into account in attempting to
understand just how unusual this response by the school would have been, in
the eyes of the parents involved. For those Americans who want to better
understand, and can remember the era, the Australian attitude about this is
a lot more like the social climate of the US in the 1970s. The focus here
has been on "harm reduction", and redirection of minor drug offenses (those
unconnected with violence or other damaging crimes against persons) to
social programs rather than the jail system. I can check with other
sources, but the last statistics I saw showed that most people here know
someone who's tried "pot" as a part of their growing up experiences, but
the actual use rate is no higher than that in the US, despite the more
common Australian choice to avoid the kind of hard-line stance reflected in
this near complete expulsion rate.
)but before the night was through most of the students off premises were
)expelled and only my brother and a friend were not expelled, how ever he
)was being further instigated and my parents felt this was stupid so we
)left before any further action took place because they my parents felt it
)was unjustified, also the teacher who was primaly involved in expelling
)ect, she was the year 12 class teacher looking after the year 12 student
)who were all drunk on school premises mind you nothing was mentioned about
)this.
So what we have here are two socially and legally equivalent illegal acts,
the kids *on-campus* who were all drunk (was this on one of the alcohols
which I am told that the students themselves produce in one of their
courses?), and the kids *off-campus*, who were likewise consuming a
substance not legally available to them. Yet one group was subjected to
expulsion shortly before graduation, from a school which cannot offer them
a transcript that will be given credit by other schools, mind you, and the
other (I take it) faced no repercussion at all. Is this about what
happened, Daniel?
This kind of attitude of "everything's okay as long as it happens within
the bounds of the approved social context" is one of the other things that
scares me most about cults and cult-like groups, because it's one of the
places I've run into really bad problems with such groups in my own life.
I am so sorry that you and your brother were subjected to any of this.
Willow
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 958
-- Topica Digest --
Re: great new site about Waldorf
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: great new site about Waldorf
By dan dandugan.com
Re: great new site about Waldorf
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Admin: web counter 106,011
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 11:00:42 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: great new site about Waldorf
on 1/23/03 9:59 PM, Dan Dugan at dan dandugan.com wrote:
) John Holland, An East Bay Waldorf School parent, has singlehandedly
) assembled a huge web site about Waldorf. He was unhappy with how his
) serious questions were treated with suspicion on the SJU Waldorf list
) (he was accused of being Diana in drag!), so he's started his own
) site and list(s). Sound familiar? I spoke with him on the phone for
) the first time two days ago--this is *not* a PLANS project.
)
) The site has very useful structured Google searches built-in. Check
it out at:
)
) http://www.openwaldorf.com
Sharon: I just spent some more time over there and was surprised to
learn--if true--that "Outline of Occult Science" has been removed from the
Waldorf teacher training book list. I'm very confused! I always thought that
the book was a very good introduction to Anthroposophy. Does it scare too
many people off? Anyone know what the deal is?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:39:50 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: great new site about Waldorf
) ) John Holland, An East Bay Waldorf School parent, has singlehandedly
)) assembled a huge web site about Waldorf. He was unhappy with how his
)) serious questions were treated with suspicion on the SJU Waldorf list
)) (he was accused of being Diana in drag!), so he's started his own
)) site and list(s). Sound familiar? I spoke with him on the phone for
)) the first time two days ago--this is *not* a PLANS project.
))
)) The site has very useful structured Google searches built-in.
))Check it out at:
))
)) http://www.openwaldorf.com
)
)Sharon: I just spent some more time over there and was surprised to
)learn--if true--that "Outline of Occult Science" has been removed from the
)Waldorf teacher training book list. I'm very confused! I always thought that
)the book was a very good introduction to Anthroposophy. Does it scare too
)many people off? Anyone know what the deal is?
There isn't any official "teacher training book list." We have one
that was given out at RSC, 1993-94. He has a more recent one, don't
know what school. Since we've been publicizing it for years, I'm not
surprised if they've tried to cover up a little. I'm asking him for
details about the list he's using.
-Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:39:08 -0500
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: great new site about Waldorf
)Sharon: I just spent some more time over there and was surprised to
)learn--if true--that "Outline of Occult Science" has been removed from the
)Waldorf teacher training book list.
I wondered that too - 2 thoughts - as it goes by two titles, "occult" has
been changed to "esoteric" in later editions, perhaps that has caused
confusion.
Or, sometimes students are asked to read some basic Steiner *before* classes
start, which might mean key titles no longer appear on course syllabi. Also,
students are frequently doing "Steiner study" groups in addition to official
coursework, so perhaps someone was trying to eliminate overlap.
And as Dan notes, there isn't just one "teacher training reading list,"
there are lots of them. Reading lists could change for lots of different
reasons; I doubt that core Steiner is suddenly being given short shrift in
teacher training.
Diana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:13:04 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Admin: web counter 106,011
On February 1, 2003, the PLANS web site had registered 106,011
visitors since August 12, 1996. (Visitors, not hits, repeats on the
same day are not counted. Thanks, Web-Counter: http://www.digits.com.)
We had 2945 visitors in the last 31 days, averaging 95 per day. This
is a jump up, 145% of last month's count.
Hit counters give much higher but less meaningful numbers, because
they count every page and image viewed. The hits on our site in the
month of January, 2003, totaled 54,580, averaging 1,761 per day.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 959
-- Topica Digest --
anthroposophy and antisemitism
By pstaud hotmail.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 18:46:21 -0600
From: "Peter Staudenmaier" (pstaud hotmail.com)
Subject: anthroposophy and antisemitism
Hello waldorf critics,
Last week I stumbled across the following link:
http://www.waldorfschule.info/aktuell/anti.pdf
It's the new English translation of a lengthy German article by three
anthroposophists addressing the question, "Was Rudolf Steiner an
Anti-Semite?" Unsurprisingly, their answer is an emphatic No. For anybody
who followed the recent discussion of this theme by Charlie, Diana, and
others, I highly recommend taking the time to read this article. It is a
fascinating instance of anthroposophists trying and failing to come to terms
with Steiner's less appealing views. The link I found is for a pdf file,
which I think means you'll need adobe acrobat to be able to read it. If I
manage to find the time, I will try to post a survey of the various
historical inaccuracies contained in the article.
On a related note, I've had a very interesting private exchange recently
with a German anthroposophist who is writing his PhD thesis on Steiner's
views on Jews and Judaism. While we disagree on a number of the central
issues, it's been refreshing to engage with an anthroposophist who is also a
historian and who doesn't simply deny the basic facts at issue. This fellow
is, by the way, harshly critical of the kind of apologetics represented by
the article I linked to above. His efforts have been greeted by scurrilous
attacks from other anthroposophists; a sad reminder of just how far the
movement has to go in working through its own history. Unfortunately none of
his work has been translated into English, to my knowledge. If anyone out
there reads German, I can recommend a couple of pieces.
Peter Staudenmaier
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 960
-- Topica Digest --
The Mommies
By dan dandugan.com
Anthroposophical science seminar
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:01:10 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: The Mommies
Time for a break! A friend sent us this excerpt from "Mother Load," a
book by the comedy team "The Mommies." You know what school they're
talking about!
-Dan Dugan
***
pp. 127-128:
Marcy was in second grade when we moved to L.A., and we tried to find
a school compatible with what she was used to. After much research,
she ended up going to The Rainbow Bridge.
The school had monthly meetings to educate new parents in the
philosophy of The Rainbow Bridge. Seems "the bridge" was an intricate
component. I came prepared with pen and tablet in hand to find out
all I could about this New Age philosophy. They lost me a little when
two teachers carried on an hour-long discussion regarding the meaning
of "Rumplestiltskin" and how it compares with today's society.
We formed a circle and another teacher took us foolishly through a
folk song and dance that our children were in the process of
learning. It's so unsightly to see big, old, self-conscious adults
leaping around a kids' classroom, don't you think? The only thing
worse is seeing big, old, *enthusiastic* adults leaping around a
kids' classroom.
They then had a question-and-answer period. One woman told of this
heartbreaking problem she was having. Her husband had passed away two
years before and her five-year-old daughter was asking when she could
have him over for dinner. The mother wanted to know how the school
would handle such a problem. One teacher said it was best to answer
her daughter *realistically*. I was completely agreeing until she
went on to say that this woman should tell her little daughter to try
to remember when she was a baby in Heaven and finally got to choose
her parents. How she came to Earth by way of The Rainbow Bridge.
This teacher recommended that she tell her five-year-old that her
father had crossed back over The Rainbow Bridge. Everyone was nodding
in agreement. I could bear it no longer.
I blurted our sarcastically, "Oh year, THAT'S very real!" I was so
irritated. I knew I had blasphemed. Everyone shot me a look, then
glanced at one another as if to say, "Guess we won't be seeing *her*
on the other side of The Rainbow Bridge." Guess not.
All second-grade parents received an esoteric letter that same month
from another parent whose daughter was in Marcy's class telling us
her life story. She had been a victim in a bad marriage until the
dolphins taught her to stand up for herself, and that's exactly what
she intended to teach her daughter to do against the bullies of the
school. I thought she meant she learned to be assertive from the
Miami Dolphins, but was corrected by another parent. This school was
annoying me.
Marcy learned many useful things at The Rainbow Bridge School: how to
knit, how to yell at children in German and how to dance with the
flow of nature.
We gave it a generous year and a half before we started looking
elsewhere. Enough with the knitting, it was time to go back to
basics. That was not an easy task in L.A. There are a few public
schools that provide a safe and calm learning environment with lots
of parental participation. Unfortunately, we didn't live near any of
them. So college-prep private school it was.
***
Kristensen, Caryl, and Marilyn Kentz (The Mommies). The Mother Load:
When Your Life's on Spin Cycle and You Just Can't Get the Lid Up! New
York: HarperCollins, 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:19:35 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Anthroposophical science seminar
Here's an announcement of a seminar implying that the principles of
medieval alchemy are important to understanding diseases like mad cow
disease, Alzheimer's, and Parkinson's disease. Only in Anthroposophy!
-Dan Dugan
***
ONE DAY SEMINAR with Dr. JUDYTH SASSOON (Dept. Biology and Biochemistry,
University of Bath, U.K.)
"PARACELSUS and the SALT, MERCURY, SULPHUR PROCESSES"
Saturday, 8th February, 9.00-16.00
Price: ?50
EMERSON COLLEGE, Forest Row,
East Sussex, RH18 5JX
Tel. +44 1342 822238; Fax +44 1342 826055
email:info emerson.org.uk
This seminar will cover the basics of the salt, mercury and sulphur
processes - the three essential Alchemical "Principles"- and will
include practical demonstrations and examples drawn from biology,
chemistry and physiology. We will be discussing how a knowledge of the
Principles may be applied in the study of nature and the preparation of
Anthroposophical remedies. I will also be presenting some of my own,
recent research on bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) and human
diseases of consciousness (such as Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's
disease) and will show how they may be studied from a Paracelsian
perspective.
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 961
-- Topica Digest --
[NNA-NEWS] Parent counsellors in demand-IPSUM Institute doubles
training capaci
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:57:03 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: [NNA-NEWS] Parent counsellors in demand-IPSUM Institute doubles
training capacity
Copyright 2003 News Network Anthroposophy Limited. All rights reserved.
The following material may be republished without the prior consent
of News Network Anthroposophy. News Network Anthroposophy does,
however, require acknowledgement of the source and, if provided, the
author of the material.
+ + + + +
NNA-N E W S
Parent counsellors in demand - IPSUM Institute doubles training capacity
By Christian von Arnim
Stuttgart, 7 February (NNA) - The job of counsellor who can give
advice to parents looking for help in bringing up their small
children in a healthy way appears to be growing into a whole new
field of work. That, at least, is the experience of the German
Institute for Education, Sensory and Media Ecology (IPSUM) based in
Stuttgart.
According to the Institute, its first part-time ?Parent
Counsellor/Early Childhood" course for people already working in a
relevant field and extending over 22 months was such a success that
even doubling capacity by introducing annual courses was not
sufficient to cope with the numbers applying.
The further training focuses particular on the first three to four
years before the child enters kindergarten and school.
The success of its courses has now led to the Institute opening a
second office in Munich. Furthermore, the model of the IPSUM parent
counsellor course has encouraged the Swiss Free Education Working
Group (FPA) to start a similar course in Zurich in cooperation with
IPSUM.
From this year onwards, then, the courses will be offered at three
locations: in Stuttgart (from March 2003), in Zurich (from August
2003) and in Munich (from September 2003). Each of the one-year
courses is followed by a six months practice period. Graduates of the
course are expected to write a diploma thesis and receive a formal
qualification on passing the course.
Another of the Institute's long-standing plans, a part-time
counselling training on anthroposophical basis in ?media and
education", which is aimed at kindergarten teachers, educationalists
and other teachers working with children of all ages, is also to be
realised this year.
The anthroposophically-oriented Institute, which was founded two
years ago, describes as its objectives to promote publicly an
educational practice which enables children to develop their sensory
and motor abilities in a healthy way under the changed conditions of
today's media and information society. It bases its educational
approach on an understanding of the human being as a spiritual being
and is researching a healthy approach to the sensory development of
children and the role of modern media in education, aiming to feed
its results into educational practice from the smallest infants to
children of school age.
ENDS
Information from: IPSUM gGmbH, Libanonstr.3, 70184 Stuttgart,
Germany. Tel. +49 (0)711 24882-10, fax -11, email:
info ipsum-institut.de, Internet: www.ipsum-institut.de
+ + + + +
Item reference number: N030207-01EN
Date: 7 February 2003
More NNA reports at: http://www.nna-news.org/content/
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 962
-- Topica Digest --
[from Robin Manesky] my opinion
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:32:59 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Cc: jeliroc core.com
Subject: [from Robin Manesky] my opinion
Dear Robin, thanks for writing to PLANS. I'm answering your note
publicly on the waldorf-critics discussion list. You can read any
replies at:
http://topica.com/lists/waldorf-critics/read
Or better, subscribe to waldorf-critics so you can take part in the
discussion. You wrote:
) From: "Robin Manesky" (jeliroc core.com)
) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:55:50 -0600
) To: (webmaster waldorfcritics.org)
) Subject: my opinion
)
) To whom it may concern,
) Don't you people have something better to do with your time, besides being
) negative?????
I, for one, have a career and a family that keep me busy. My Waldorf
work is my public service time.
) "One man's treasure is another man's garbage", said a wise person.
) Our country on the brink of war...and you people are supporting that same
) kinda energy too?!
I'd like to think that good education is one of the ways to prevent
unnecessary wars, and to insure the ethical prosecution of necessary
ones. Surely a well-educated citizenry will make better-informed
decisions about life-and-death issues like war.
Waldorf, by the way, is not a pacifistic system. There are stories
about fighting in the early grades, and often children are given
swords to act out Michael slaying the dragon.
) As Howard Gardner said one can find criticism and positive aspects
of ALL the
) educational systems available in the world.
Sure. At PLANS, we specialize in Waldorf. We're involved because we
have had experience with Waldorf schools.
) It is completely ignorant to make
) such blanket statements about 800 or so schools worldwide!!!! Knowing that
) each school and every person in the world is a individual unto itself.
If they were all completely different, "Waldorf" would be
meaningless. We're not ignorant. Many of us at PLANS are former
Waldorf parents, teachers, trustees, or employees. Many of us have
read Steiner extensively. Our library subscribes to half a dozen
Waldorf and Anthroposophical periodicals to keep us up to date on the
latest thinking in the movement. We have many of the texts used in
Waldorf teacher training, so we know what the teachers are supposed
to be doing. We've seen the results in our own children's lesson
books.
) Thus,
) such comments are unfair, extremely negative, misleading and uneducated.
I challenge you to subscribe to waldorf-critics and bring forward any
comments of ours that you think are unfair, misleading, or
uneducated. Sorry about being negative. If Waldorf hadn't started to
move into public education, it wouldn't have been necessary to expose
it.
) So, having said that....I think you people need to find something more
) beneficial to contribute to society.
We can disagree on that.
) Also, if you are going to give out
) information be specific and accurate.
Exactly what we are campaigning for Waldorf schools to do.
) Have you had an experience with every school in the U.S.A. ????
No, but I have visited quite a few of them, and I read many of the
publications of AWSNA.
) Do you also believe that blondes have more fun???
Off topic, Robin.
) In peace,
) "Truthful in Chicago"
Sincerely, Dan Dugan
Secretary, PLANS, Inc.
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 963
-- Topica Digest --
PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
By dan dandugan.com
Re: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
Admin: list will be down for 2 hrs Sunday
By dan dandugan.com
WHISTLE-BLOWERS WIN APPEAL, CASE AGAINST PUBLIC WALDORF SCHOOLS
TO GO TO TRIAL
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:33:06 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
[The original is available at
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/D9BE31CB175DCC2688256CC6007B29E2/$file/0116437.pdf?openelement]
FOR PUBLICATION
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
? PLANS, INC.,
Plaintiff-Appellant, No. 01-16437
v. D.C. No. y* SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL CV-98-00266-FCD
DISTRICT; TWIN RIDGES ELEMENTARY OPINION SCHOOL DISTRICT,
Defendants-Appellees.
Appeal from the United States District Court
for the Eastern District of California
Frank C. Damrell, District Judge, Presiding
Argued and Submitted
October 9, 2002-San Francisco, California
Filed February 10, 2003
Before: Dorothy W. Nelson, Robert R. Beezer and
Kim McLane Wardlaw, Circuit Judges.
Opinion by Judge Wardlaw
1755
COUNSEL
Scott M. Kendall, Elk Grove, California, for the appellant.
Christian M. Keiner and Michelle L. Cannon, Girard & Vinson,
Sacramento, California, for the appellees.
OPINION
WARDLAW, Circuit Judge:
The People for Legal and Non-Sectarian Schools
("PLANS") sued the Sacramento City and Twin Ridges Ele-
1757 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
mentary school districts for sponsoring and supporting Waldorf
schools with public funds. PLANS appeals the district
court's judgment and order denying it taxpayer standing.
Because PLANS does not challenge a specific program or
activity, but rather the Waldorf school curriculum as a whole,
and because the schools are supported by a measurable
amount of public funds, we find that PLANS enjoys taxpayer
standing to proceed. We have jurisdiction pursuant to 28
U.S.C. ? 1291 and reverse.
I. Background
PLANS is a non-profit California corporation whose members
include taxpayers residing in both the Sacramento City
Unified School District ("SCUSD") and the Twin Ridges Elementary
School District ("TRESD"). One of PLANS's objectives
is to educate the public about the nature of the education
provided by Waldorf schools.
Austrian-born Rudolf Steiner developed the Waldorf system
of education in 1919 when he founded a school in Germany
for the children of the Waldorf-Astoria cigarette factory
workers. Waldorf education involves alternative teaching
methods, including the incorporation of the arts into all subjects,
three- to four-week block subject lessons, and integration
of various subjects, such as storytelling, reading myths
and legends, learning handcrafts, cooking, gardening, painting,
music, and movement. Before founding the Waldorf
method of education, Steiner formulated a "spiritual science"
known as "Anthroposophy." PLANS alleges, and for purposes
of these proceedings, the school districts concede, that
Anthroposophy is a religion, inseparable from Waldorf education.
In 1993, as part of its voluntary desegregation plan,
SCUSD proposed that several of its schools become magnet
schools, each with a specialty focus. One of the district's
schools, the Oak Ridge School, chose the Waldorf method as
1758 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
its magnet focus. The SCUSD school board approved Oak
Ridge's magnet focus in April 1995. Oak Ridge began operating
as a Waldorf-methods magnet school soon afterwards.
Before the 1997-98 school year, Oak Ridge changed locations
and was renamed the John Morse Waldorf Methods Magnet
School. During the 1997-98 school year, John Morse received
public funding, including magnet funds in the amount of
$188,580.
The teachers at John Morse receive training from Rudolf
Steiner College, a teachers' college specializing in Waldorf
educational methods. The parties dispute whether the teacher
training program excludes all topics of a spiritual, religious,
or Anthroposophical nature.
Meanwhile, TRESD agreed in 1994 to sponsor a Waldorf
charter school. The Twin Ridges Alternative Charter School
opened in September 1994, and became the Yuba River Charter
School the following year. As a charter school, Yuba River
is largely publicly funded. The parties dispute whether
Anthroposophy is part of the Yuba River curriculum.
In February 1998, PLANS filed a complaint against the
school districts for declaratory and injunctive relief. PLANS
alleges that the school districts' sponsorship and operation of
Waldorf schools constitutes an establishment of religion in
violation of the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the
United States Constitution, as well as Articles XVI, ? 5 and
IX, ? 8 of the California Constitution. In response to
PLANS's complaint, the school districts moved for summary
judgment or summary adjudication, contending that PLANS
lacks taxpayer standing to bring this suit.
Initially, the district court denied the school districts'
motion, reasoning that PLANS challenged the schools' curricula
as a comprehensive unit, not merely an isolated activity
for which a separate public expenditure could be identified. It
also held that PLANS had raised a genuine issue of material
1759 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
fact as to the role of Anthroposophy in Waldorf education.
The school districts sought permission to file an interlocutory
appeal on the question of taxpayer standing, which we denied.
PLANS, Inc. v. Sacramento City Unified Sch. Dist., No. 00-
80002 (9th Cir. Apr. 27, 2002) (unpublished order denying
petition for permission to appeal).
As trial on the matter approached, however, the school districts
filed a notice of new authority, asserting that the Second
Circuit's decision denying taxpayer standing in Altman v.
Bedford Central School District, 245 F.3d 49 (2d Cir. 2001),
supported a similar judgment in this case. As a result, the district
court ordered PLANS to provide a further offer of proof
as to the "expenditure of public monies for the activities that
are objected to in this complaint." PLANS submitted further
briefing, reiterating its objection to the entirety of the Waldorf
schools and their funding by the public school districts.
The district court found PLANS's offer of proof insufficient,
because the only expenditure identified with particularity
as directly attributable to the Waldorf method was not
shown to increase SCUSD's teacher training costs by any
amount, and thus PLANS had failed to show that adoption of
the Waldorf method added any sum at all to ordinary operations
costs. It held that in the absence of such a showing,
PLANS lacked taxpayer standing to sustain this suit.
II. Discussion
[1] PLANS's standing depends upon whether its claim of
public funding of Waldorf education is a "good-faith pocketbook"
challenge. Doremus v. Bd. of Educ., 342 U.S. 429, 434-
35 (1952). A good-faith pocketbook challenge identifies a
measurable sum of public funds being used to further a challenged
activity. Here, where PLANS objected to the entire
Waldorf curriculum of the two schools in question and identified
public funds used for those schools, we conclude that it
raises a good-faith pocketbook challenge.
1760 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
We review de novo a district court's grant of summary
judgment. Cole v. Oroville Union High Sch. Dist., 228 F.3d
1092, 1097 (9th Cir. 2000). "Viewing the evidence in the light
most favorable to the nonmoving party, and drawing all reasonable
inferences in its favor, we must determine 'whether
the district court correctly applied the relevant substantive law
and whether there are any genuine issues of material fact.' "
Id. (quoting Balint v. Carson City, 180 F.3d 1047, 1050 (9th
Cir. 1999) (en banc)). We also review issues of standing de
novo. Id. at 1097-98; see also Bruce v. United States, 759
F.2d 755, 758 (9th Cir. 1985) (reviewing taxpayer standing).
[2] Standing derives from the Article III requirement that
federal courts hear only live cases and controversies. Cole,
228 F.3d at 1098 (citing Friends of the Earth, Inc. v. Laidlaw
Envtl. Servs. (TOC), Inc., 528 U.S. 167 (2000)). "One of [the]
landmarks, setting apart the 'Cases' and 'Controversies' that
are of the justiciable sort referred to in Article III - 'serv-
[ing] to identify those disputes which are appropriately
resolved through the judicial process' - is the doctrine of
standing." Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555, 560
(1992) (alteration in original) (quoting Whitmore v. Arkansas,
495 U.S. 149, 155 (1990)). Because PLANS has members
residing in both of the school districts at issue, seeks to protect
interests germane to its organizational purpose, and
asserts claims for relief that do not demand the participation
of its individual members, PLANS appropriately asserts organizational
standing. See Cent. Delta Water Agency v. United
States, 306 F.3d 938, 951 (9th Cir. 2002) (citing Hunt v.
Wash. State Apple Adver. Comm'n, 432 U.S. 333, 343
(1977)). The issue disputed here is whether those PLANS
members upon which the organization's standing is based
have taxpayer standing, thus creating standing for the organization
itself. " '[T]axpayer standing,' by its nature, requires an
injury resulting from a government's expenditure of tax revenues."
Doe v. Madison Sch. Dist. No. 321, 177 F.3d 789, 793
(9th Cir. 1999) (en banc).
1761 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
The district court, relying upon Altman for its application
of the good-faith pocketbook requirement, held that PLANS's
members, and thus the organization itself, lacked taxpayer
standing because PLANS was unable to identify a measurable
amount of public monies being used to further particular challenged
activities. Its reliance upon Altman is misplaced, however,
because whereas the plaintiffs in Altman challenged
specific programs and activities within state-run public
schools, PLANS objects to the comprehensive curricula of the
Waldorf schools as permeated by a particular religion,
Anthroposophy.
In Altman, the plaintiffs challenged a fourth-grade class's
reading of the Hindu story of Ganesha, an art class's construction
of worry dolls, one school's Earth Day festivities, a
teacher's use of a "Listening to Nature" tape in classroom
instruction, and several other isolated school programs or
activities. 245 F.3d at 57-63. In other words, the taxpayers
challenged not the operation of the schools themselves, but
the spiritual nature of certain programs within the schools'
curricula. The schools themselves were public schools whose
curriculum was state-regulated. The Second Circuit reviewed
the plaintiffs' challenges to each activity and analyzed as to
each whether a measurable amount of public funding had
been dedicated to that activity: "[W]hat was required for the
establishment of taxpayer standing to complain of [these]
activities . . . was a showing of a measurable appropriation or
loss of revenue attributable to the challenged activities at
those schools." Id. at 74. The court rejected taxpayer standing
as a basis for each of the specific challenges. Id.
[3] PLANS does not limit its objection to specific programs
or activities within the Waldorf educational day. Rather, it
alleges that the entire Waldorf approach is inherently religious,
and that in using public funds to support it, the school
districts are impermissibly establishing religious schools.
These allegations, along with PLANS's identification of public
funds used for the operation of the Waldorf schools, are
1762 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
sufficient to support taxpayer standing. This case is no different
from a situation in which a school district uses public
monies to fund the operation of a parochial school, e.g., setting
up a magnet or charter Catholic school, where there
would be no question as to taxpayer standing to challenge
such funding.
The school districts cite several cases in which courts have
denied taxpayer standing due to plaintiffs' failures to meet the
good-faith pocketbook requirement. In Doremus, for example,
the Supreme Court held that plaintiffs challenging a policy of
reading the Old Testament at the beginning of each school
day could not assert taxpayer standing because "[t]here [was]
no allegation that this activity [was] supported by any separate
tax or paid for from any particular appropriation or that
it add[ed] any sum whatever to the cost of conducting the
school." 342 U.S. at 433. In Doe, where parents and students
challenged a school district policy permitting selected students
to give religious speeches or prayers during graduation
ceremonies, we reasoned that "Doe identifie[d] no tax dollars
that defendants spent solely on the graduation prayer," and
that the funds used for renting a hall, printing graduation programs,
buying decorations, and hiring security guards would
have also been used in a graduation without prayer and thus
could not support taxpayer standing. 177 F.3d at 794. Finally,
we noted in Cole that, if asserted, taxpayer standing would
fail in a suit to allow students to give religious speeches or
invocations at graduation: "[T]heir claims of taxpayer standing
would fail because the appellants have not identified tax
dollars spent solely on the valedictory speech or the invocation
or on the District's decision to refuse to allow sectarian
speech at its graduation ceremonies." 228 F.3d at 1100 n.5.
Once again, however, these cases are distinguishable from
PLANS's challenge, because, as in Altman, they involve challenges
to specific public school programs or activities. Here,
PLANS does not challenge a specific policy on prayer or isolated
activities occurring in the Waldorf schools. As with a
1763 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
traditionally religious or sectarian school, PLANS suggests
that it is impossible to separate the religious and nonreligious
aspects of the Waldorf schools. Rather, according to the organization's
allegations, the spiritual philosophy or "religion"
Anthroposophy permeates the entire Waldorf school curriculum.
III. Conclusion
Because PLANS challenges the Waldorf school curriculum
as a whole, and because it has shown that a measurable
amount of public funds support the Waldorf schools, PLANS
has taxpayer standing to pursue this suit.
REVERSED and REMANDED.
1764 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:42:20 +1030
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Re: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
At 11-02-03 12:33 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
)[The original is available at
)http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/D9BE31CB175DCC2688256CC6007B29E2/$file/0116437.pdf?openelement]
)(snip)
)Appeal from the United States District Court
)for the Eastern District of California
)Frank C. Damrell, District Judge, Presiding
)(snip)
)OPINION
)WARDLAW, Circuit Judge:
)The People for Legal and Non-Sectarian Schools
)("PLANS") sued the Sacramento City and Twin Ridges Ele-
)
)1757 PLANS, INC. v. SACRAMENTO CITY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.
)mentary school districts for sponsoring and supporting Waldorf
)schools with public funds. PLANS appeals the district
)court's judgment and order denying it taxpayer standing.
)Because PLANS does not challenge a specific program or
)activity, but rather the Waldorf school curriculum as a whole,
)and because the schools are supported by a measurable
)amount of public funds, we find that PLANS enjoys taxpayer
)standing to proceed. We have jurisdiction pursuant to 28
)U.S.C. ? 1291 and reverse.
Hurrah!!! Taxpayers actually have rights as taxpayers! Regardless of the
outcome of the case itself, I'm VERY glad this part went through - I was
appalled at the idea that parents and tax-payers did not have the right, in
the US, to protest the expenditure of their state-garnered taxes for the
purposes of providing a religious education to the children attending
*public* schools, in a country where that is illegal.
Willow Firesong
---
A belief is a conclusion to which one subscribes strongly: ?Our belief in
any particular natural law cannot have a safer basis than our unsuccessful
critical attempts to refute it? (Karl Popper).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:45:59 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Admin: list will be down for 2 hrs Sunday
Dear Topica Exchange List Owner,
We wanted to let you know that the Topica Exchange Web site will be
unavailable for approximately 2 hours on Sunday, February 16, 2003,
beginning at 8:00 am PST (16:00 GMT) and ending at 10 am PST (18:00
GMT) for maintenance.
During this time, the entire Topica Web site and services will be
unavailable and site visitors will be greeted by an "Under Maintenance"
page. As always, during this down time all email messages sent to Topica
Exchange lists will be queued and then delivered shortly after service
is restored.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 23:38:17 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Cc: waldorf-critics topica.com
Subject: WHISTLE-BLOWERS WIN APPEAL, CASE AGAINST PUBLIC WALDORF SCHOOLS
TO GO TO TRIAL
PEOPLE FOR LEGAL AND NONSECTARIAN SCHOOLS, INC. (PLANS)
http://www.waldorfcritics.org
Debra Snell, President
12562 Rough and Ready Highway
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 273-1005 president waldorfcritics.org
Lisa Ercolano, Vice President
220 Gaywood Road
Baltimore, MD 21212-1709
(410) 377-4204 vicepresident waldorfcritics.org
Dan Dugan, Secretary
290 Napoleon St. Studio E
San Francisco, CA 94124
(415) 821-9776 secretary waldorfcritics.org
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, FEBRUARY 12, 2003
WHISTLE-BLOWERS WIN APPEAL, CASE AGAINST PUBLIC WALDORF SCHOOLS TO GO TO TRIAL
On February 10, 2003, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals published
its decision on PLANS v. Sacramento City Unified School District and
Twin Ridges Elementary School District. The document can be found at:
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/D9BE31CB175DCC2688256CC6007B29E2/$file/0116437.pdf?openelement
The court reversed the district court's dismissal, and remanded the
case back to the district court.
BACKGROUND
PLANS contends that public Waldorf schools are intrinsically and
inseparably based upon Anthroposophy, a New Age occultic religion.
Curriculum decisions and teacher training in public Waldorf schools
are based on Anthroposophy's spiritually-based child development
model. Publicly-funded use and reliance upon the doctrines of
Anthroposophy impermissibly endorses that religion in violation of
the United States and California constitutions.
PLANS filed its federal lawsuit in Sacramento on February 11, 1998,
naming as defendants the Sacramento Unified School District, which
operates a "Waldorf Method" magnet school, and the Twin Ridges
Elementary School District, which has established seven
"Waldorf-inspired" charter schools.
During the discovery phase of the litigation, PLANS discovered
internal documents that described, in the words of the
Anthroposophists themselves, the true nature and purpose of Waldorf
education. The Sacramento City Unified School District identified
"The Waldorf Teacher's Survival Guide" as one of its resource
materials for "training or instruction in Waldorf teaching methods or
Waldorf curriculum." This book, which is published by Rudolf Steiner
College Press--the same Anthroposophical institution that trained
Sacramento's public Waldorf teachers--describes the agenda and
methods of Waldorf education. The Anthroposophical author, in a
candid moment, describes the relationship between Waldorf education
and Lucifer:
"Most of that which contributes to our work as teachers, preparation
work, artistic work, even meditative work, is under the guardianship
of Lucifer. We can become great teachers under his supervision, for
he is responsible for much that has blossomed in the unfolding of
civilization and culture in the past."
In May, 2001, The Honorable Frank C. Damrell (U.S. District Court,
Eastern District of California) dismissed PLANS' Establishment Clause
lawsuit against two school districts based on lack of standing. Judge
Damrell reversed his earlier ruling in favor of PLANS' standing in
the light of the 2nd Circuit Court's decision in the Altman case.
In the Altman case, Roman Catholic parents sued a public school
district because they objected to a number of practices that they saw
as New Age religion in a public school. The court upheld some claims
and dismissed others. The judge found that the making of an image of
the Hindu god Ganesha, the use of "worry dolls" to "chase away bad
dreams," the liturgy of an Earth Day celebration, and the playing of
a Native American prayer on a meditation tape violated the
Establishment Clause. Other practices that were ruled to be harmless
included the game "Magic, the Gathering," a Yoga class taught by a
Sikh priest, and meditation exercises.
In its decision on an appeal, the 2nd Circuit Court threw out all of
the allowed claims on a technicality without considering the merits
of the case. The circuit court ruled that most issues were moot
because the children were no longer at the schools. Taxpayer standing
was also denied because the plaintiffs did not show that the alleged
religious activities involved any specific expenditure of public
funds.
A major difference between the Altman case and PLANS' case is that
while in Altman the practices complained about were not coordinated,
PLANS alleges that Waldorf schools, both private and public, are
pervaded with Anthroposophy, the religious philosophy of Rudolf
Steiner (1861-1925). The issue with public Waldorf schools,
therefore, goes beyond specific practices to the allegation that a
religious philosophy is the foundation of both educational theory and
day-to-day activities.
With regard to taxpayer standing, the situation is also different in
PLANS' case. The schools involved made large expenditures for teacher
training by Anthroposophical mentors and teacher training at Rudolf
Steiner College, self-described as "a center for Anthroposophical
endeavors." The Sacramento public Waldorf program occupies a separate
campus established for that purpose, and the Yuba River Charter
School that PLANS is suing was formed for that purpose, so in both
situations taxpayer funds have been specifically paid for the alleged
religious activities.
QUOTATIONS FROM THE DECISION
"A good-faith pocketbook challenge identifies a measurable sum of
public funds being used to further a challenged activity. Here, where
PLANS objected to the entire Waldorf curriculum of the two schools in
question and identified public funds used for those schools, we
conclude that it raises a good-faith pocketbook challenge." [p. 1760]
"PLANS does not limit its objection to specific programs or
activities within the Waldorf educational day. Rather, it alleges
that the entire Waldorf approach is inherently religious, and that in
using public funds to support it, the school districts are
impermissibly establishing religious schools. These allegations,
along with PLANS's identification of public funds used for the
operation of the Waldorf schools, are sufficient to support taxpayer
standing. This case is no different from a situation in which a
school district uses public monies to fund the operation of a
parochial school, e.g., setting up a magnet or charter Catholic
school, where there would be no question as to taxpayer standing to
challenge such funding." [pp. 1762-1763]
REACTIONS
Debra Snell, president of PLANS, said: "Our intention is to put
Waldorf schools back in the private sector where they belong, and
seal the crack in the wall of separation between church and state.
I'm fully confident that we will win."
Scott Kendall, attorney for PLANS, said: "This precedent-setting
decision affirms that public funds can't be used to establish
emerging New Age religious schools without challenge."
Dan Dugan, Secretary of PLANS, said: "Our federal court case is five
years old today. What a nice anniversary present!"
WHAT IS PLANS?
PLANS was organized in late 1995 by former Waldorf parents and
teachers concerned about both private and public Waldorf schools. It
became a California non-profit corporation in 1997. PLANS' volunteer
board includes two public school teachers, one of whom has received
Waldorf teacher training; the president of a skeptical society; the
associate director of a Christian anti-cult ministry, and two former
Waldorf parents. PLANS' President, Debra Snell, was a director of a
private Waldorf school and helped found a Waldorf charter school. For
more information, please see the PLANS web site,
http://www.waldorfcritics.org.
-30-
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 964
-- Topica Digest --
The Union (Nevada County): Court revives lawsuit against charter
school
By dan dandugan.com
Sacramento Bee:
By dan dandugan.com
Re:PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
By feetapparel hotmail.com
Re: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
By Neil.wc faiman.org
[NNA] Continuing success for South Africa's Novalis Institute
By dan dandugan.com
Re:PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:28:38 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: The Union (Nevada County): Court revives lawsuit against charter
school
http://www.theunion.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Site=TU&Date=20030212&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=102120042&Ref=AR
February 12, 2003
Court revives lawsuit against charter school
David Mirhadi
A lawsuit alleging a Nevada City charter school blurred the
separation of church and state with a form of religious instruction
has been revived by a three-judge federal panel.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals revived the lawsuit Monday,
nearly two years after a U.S. District judge ruled against the
plaintiffs, People for Legal and Non-Sectarian Schools, writing that
the plaintiffs could not sue the Twin Ridges Elementary School
District, home of Yuba River Charter School, in federal court.
The ruling was cheered by Debra Snell, a leader of PLANS whose two
children previously attended the school. The school is a K-8 program
with more than 200 students.
"Waldorf schools, funded by the public sector, are a crack in the
wall of a separation of church and state," she said. "They need to be
more forthcoming about their mission."
Terry Anne Parquette, Yuba River's principal, was unavailable for
comment Tuesday.
What effect the revived suit will have on the Twin Ridges district
hasn't been determined, district representatives said, though Twin
Ridges will have to spend more on legal fees at a time the district
faces a precarious economic situation.
"To have to take money away from teachers and curriculum to defend
this suit is despicable," said Terry McAteer, Nevada County
superintendent of schools, who added he believed the suit to be
without merit.
As a result of Monday's action, the suit could be returned to the
U.S. District Court, where Judge Frank C. Damrell could rule on the
merits of the case.
The original suit was filed in 1998 by PLANS against Twin Ridges and
the Sacramento Unified School District. The plaintiffs alleged that
students at Yuba River Charter School were taught a religion called
anthroposophy.
Anthroposophy was inspired by Rudolf Steiner, the founder of the
first Waldorf school in 1919.
Anthroposophy is a religion based in mysticism, one that "embraces a
spiritual view of the human being and the cosmos," according to the
Anthroposophical Society in America. Its tenets in Waldorf
instruction include "disciplined creativity, wonder and reverence and
respect for nature and human existence."
Twin Ridges superintendent Dave Taylor said Monday's action will have
little immediate impact on the school's operation, and lawyers for
the district said that while they plan to ask the three-judge panel
to review their decision, there probably won't be any impact this
year or the following school year.
Christian Keiner, a partner in the Sacramento-based Girard and Vinson
law firm said Twin Ridges has already successfully challenged the
assumption of Waldorf methods as religious-based instruction.
"We use Waldorf methods in school, and they are perfectly legal," he said.
A petition to ask the judges to review their decision will be filed
within the next 14 days, Keiner said.
- The Associated Press contributed to this story.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:36:21 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Sacramento Bee:
Sacramento Bee
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/courts_legal/story/6098296p-7054225c.html
Appeals court reinstates suit against teaching technique
By Claire Cooper -- Bee Legal Affairs Writer
Published 2:15 a.m. PST Tuesday, February 11, 2003
SAN FRANCISCO -- A federal appeals court Monday reinstated a
community group's taxpayer suit against use of the Waldorf teaching
method in public schools.
People for Legal and Non-Sectarian Schools (PLANS) filed the suit
against two school districts five years ago. They charged that
instruction at Sacramento's John Morse Waldorf Methods Magnet School
and Nevada City's Yuba River Charter School, which also uses the
Waldorf method, was infused with anthroposophy, a religion.
U.S. District Judge Frank Damrell dismissed the suit in 2001, after
an appeals court ruled against plaintiffs challenging a New York
Waldorf school.
In reviving the PLANS suit, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals
said it was legally dissimilar because it was based on "the
comprehensive curricula" of the schools, not just specific activities.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:10:56 +0000
From: "Peter Farrell" (feetapparel hotmail.com)
Subject: Re:PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
I have extracted the following from the judgement:
"Before founding the Waldorf
method of education, Steiner formulated a "spiritual science"
known as "Anthroposophy." PLANS alleges, and for purposes
of these proceedings, the school districts concede, that
Anthroposophy is a religion, inseparable from Waldorf education."
I would appreciate it if someone who understands such things might comment
on the meaning and limitations of this concession for the continuing legal
process.
Thanks, Peter
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones.?Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:28:55 -0500
From: Neil Faiman (Neil.wc faiman.org)
Subject: Re: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
It means that PLANS and the school district agreed that the question
being appealed was, "Assuming for the sake of argument that
Anthroposophy is a religion, inseparable from Waldorf education; then
would PLANS have standing to bring its case (in the lower court)?"
-Neil Faiman
On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 08:10 PM, Peter Farrell wrote:
) I have extracted the following from the judgement:
) "Before founding the Waldorf
) method of education, Steiner formulated a "spiritual science"
) known as "Anthroposophy." PLANS alleges, and for purposes
) of these proceedings, the school districts concede, that
) Anthroposophy is a religion, inseparable from Waldorf education."
)
) I would appreciate it if someone who understands such things might
) comment on the meaning and limitations of this concession for the
) continuing legal process.
) Thanks, Peter
)
)
) _________________________________________________________________
) MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones.?Go to
) http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp
)
)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:19:09 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: [NNA] Continuing success for South Africa's Novalis Institute
The Novalis Institute is the publisher of the racist essays that we
often quote as examples of Steiner's racism being carried forward
from the 1920's to today.
"[T]he etheric body of the black man is so strongly embedded in the
physical body that it is difficult for the astral body to emerge and
quite impossible for the ego to loosen itself. This led to an
exceedingly strong development of the will powers to the detriment of
feeling and thinking. " [Picard, 1987, pp. 118-119]
"Invisible Africa," the book that's from, is for sale on their web site:
http://www.ideas-net.de/novalis/press/pressia.htm
Now we see they're getting government and UNESCO sanctions for their
activities. Note that "associative economics" mentioned below is
Steiner's "threefold social order."
-Dan Dugan
***
Copyright 2003 News Network Anthroposophy Limited. All rights reserved.
The following material may be republished without the prior consent
of News Network Anthroposophy. News Network Anthroposophy does,
however, require acknowledgement of the source and, if provided, the
author of the material.
+ + + + +
NNA-N E W S
Continuing success for South Africa's Novalis Institute
Cape Town, 12 February (NNA) - The Novalis Institute in South Africa
can look back on 2002 as a successful year in its development.
The Institute, a resource centre for innovative development
programmes in education and culture, became fully accredited to key
government bodies enabling it to offer certificates and diplomas for
accredited courses for teachers which will allow it to influence
education at all levels.
"These developments are fundamental, in that Novalis has won official
approval enabling it to contribute to innovative and creative
learning," the Institute said in a review of 2002 and preview for
2003.
In September, Novalis became fully accredited with the ETDP
(Education and Training Development Provider) SETA (Sectoral
Education and Training Area) up to level six in the NQF (National
Qualifications Framework) and the FET (Further Education and
Training) band of national education.
In November, the Institute was recognised by the Minister of
Education Prof. Kadar Asmal and the South African National Commission
for UNESCO as a co-operating organisation. This important distinction
means that Novalis is one of 34 non-profit organisations selected out
of hundreds.
Another project initiated by the Novalis Institute, the SGB
(Standards Generating Body) for Arts and Culture-based Education and
Training, was formally gazetted in the South African government
publication in July 2002. In it the SAQA (South African
Qualifications Authority) has mandated the SGB to design and write
the unit standards from which an accredited curriculum to further
arts and culture-based learning will then be designed, written and
piloted. Novalis will play a leading role.
The mandate for the working group is for three years, during which
the SGB will meet seven times a year to do its work. This means that,
upon completion, the methodology newly co-created by Novalis will
have been designed into a fully accredited and recognised training
that will be offered through any tertiary or continuing education
institution in South Africa.
Education programmes run by Novalis include Whole School Development,
Curriculum Assessment Professional Training, Whole Food Gardens,
Music and Integrated Arts across the Curriculum.
New programmes for 2003 include a leadership programme for school
principals as well as a personal leadership programme. The Youth
Empowerment Programme is repeating a combined Camphill-Novalis
project which was successfully run for the first time in 2000 for
young people from the poor areas of the Western Cape Moravian church
settlements.
These programmes will include a study on sustainability based upon
the "South African Agenda 21" (SACSA21) which was presented at the
World Summit for Sustainable Development in August 2002.
In addition, prominent economist Margaret Legum and Ralph Shepherd
will develop a programme to train facilitators in "associative
economics". The course will be based on her recently published book,
"It Does Not have to be this Way", as well as on material from
"Shaping Globalisation" by civil society activist Nicanor Perlas and
"Because People Matter" by economist Jurriaan Kemp
In addition to its programmes, the Novalis Institute is also planning
a series of conferences in 2003. "Ubuntu Leadership -- The
development of values in society towards becoming a 'true
cosmopolitan'" in April will investigate how the restrictions of
nationalism can be transcended for an inclusive humanity. The
conference coincides with the visit of Prof. Harrie Salman from the
Netherlands and Stephan M?gel-Stadel from Germany, for the South
African launch of the latter's book "Dag Hammarskjold, Visionary for
the Future of Humanity".
The second conference will have the theme "What is Education Really?
(Part 2)" It follows the successful conference held in October 2002
at which participants requested that this exploration for senior
educators and academics be continued. A date for May or June will be
considered.
A third conference will be held under the Civil Society theme,
exploring complementary currencies and associative economics. A date
in September is being considered.
ENDS
The Novalis Institute, 39 Rosmead Avenue, Wynberg 7800, Cape Town,
South Africa. Telephone: +27 (021) 797 1857, fax: +27 (021) 761 0057,
e-mail: (mailto:info novalis.org.za)info novalis.org.za, Internet:
(http://www.novalis.org.za/)www.novalis.org.za.
+ + + + +
Item reference number: N030212-01EN
Date: 12 February 2003
More NNA reports at: http://www.nna-news.org/content/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:15:25 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re:PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
Peter Farrell, you wrote:
)I have extracted the following from the judgement:
)"Before founding the Waldorf
)method of education, Steiner formulated a "spiritual science"
)known as "Anthroposophy." PLANS alleges, and for purposes
)of these proceedings, the school districts concede, that
)Anthroposophy is a religion, inseparable from Waldorf education."
)
)I would appreciate it if someone who understands such things might
)comment on the meaning and limitations of this concession for the
)continuing legal process.
In the fall of 1999, the school districts made a motion for summary
judgment. In that motion they conceded, -for the purposes of that
motion- that Anthroposophy was a religion. At that time our lawyer
explained that that did not commit the schools to that position
beyond that particular motion; they could take an opposite position
later at the trial.
I also picked up on the 9th Circuit Court's apparent application of
that concession to "these proceedings," which to me would mean the
whole lawsuit. Perhaps it's a clue that the appeals court would not
look kindly on it if the schools were to reverse their position; but
it may just reflect a misunderstanding of the scope of the concession
by the appeals court. As far as I know, that concession applied only
to the 1999 motion.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 965
-- Topica Digest --
RE: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
By dlawrenz hinklelawfirm.com
RE: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
By feetapparel hotmail.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:26:44 +0000
From: David (dlawrenz hinklelawfirm.com)
Subject: RE: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
Dan wrote:
) In the fall of 1999, the school districts made a motion for summary
) judgment. In that motion they conceded, -for the purposes of that
) motion- that Anthroposophy was a religion. At that time our lawyer
) explained that that did not commit the schools to that position
) beyond that particular motion; they could take an opposite position
) later at the trial.
)
) I also picked up on the 9th Circuit Court's apparent application of
) that concession to "these proceedings," which to me would mean the
) whole lawsuit. Perhaps it's a clue that the appeals court would not
) look kindly on it if the schools were to reverse their position; but
) it may just reflect a misunderstanding of the scope of the concession
) by the appeals court. As far as I know, that concession applied only
) to the 1999 motion.
If I understand correctly, the School District's motion for summary
judgment was largely, or entirely, directed at whether PLANS had
"standing" to challenge the constitutionality of the Waldorf-inspired
public schools. Consequently, when the 9th Circuit refers to "these
proceedings" it is only referring to the lower court's ruling on the
summary judgment motion and the subsequent appeal of the lower court's
decision. I would not read anything into the 9th Circuit's statement
regarding the School District's concession. By conceeding that
Anthroposophy is a religion in the summary judgment motion, the School
District is simply saying "we'll assume, for the limited purpose of our
motion addressed to whether PLANS has standing to challenge the public
funding of a religious-based school, that Anthroposophy is a religion."
By making this concession, the School District simplifies the factual
issues before the District Court, and narrows the focus of its motion
for summary judgment to the strictly legal issue of PLANS' standing.
This kind of concession by the moving party on a factual issue has no
impact on the rest of the lawsuit. In fact, it seems to me that this
factual issue -- whether a Waldorf-inspired school promotes
anthroposophy, which is a religion -- will be a central focus of the
case when it it re-commences on remand, and PLANS will have the burden
of convincing the judge (or a jury) on this factual issue.
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 01:02:23 +0000
From: "Peter Farrell" (feetapparel hotmail.com)
Subject: RE: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
David (dlawrenz hinklelawfirm.com) wrote:
)In fact, it seems to me that this
)factual issue -- whether a Waldorf-inspired school promotes
)anthroposophy, which is a religion -- will be a central focus of the
)case when it it re-commences on remand, and PLANS will have the burden
)of convincing the judge (or a jury) on this factual issue.
)
Peter asks:
I guess there are some precedents hanging about. It would be interesting if
any knowledgable contributors could summarise any precedents for us legal
ignoramuses. I presume ther have been previous cases in the US where the
status of some movement or group as religious or not has arisen and been
decided by the courts.
See you, Peter
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones.?Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 966
-- Topica Digest --
Re: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
By mysplum earthlink.net
charter schools in Maryland?
By momof2gals mindspring.com
anyone ever heard of ...
By momof2gals mindspring.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:05:07 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: PLANS WINS APPEAL: text of 9th Circuit Court Decision
on 2/13/03 5:02 PM, Peter Farrell at feetapparel hotmail.com wrote:
) Peter asks:
) I guess there are some precedents hanging about. It would be interesting if
) any knowledgable contributors could summarise any precedents for us legal
) ignoramuses. I presume ther have been previous cases in the US where the
) status of some movement or group as religious or not has arisen and been
) decided by the courts.
) See you, Peter
Sharon: I'm a legal ignoramus, definitely not an expert, but I do read
Freethought Today which basically keeps me up to date with various
church/state legal cases around the United States. As far as I know, there
haven't been that many cases where an esoteric sect takes over a whole
public school--"child development model" and all--as alleged in the PLANS
case. There have been quite a few cases where religious teachers, sometimes
backed by religious movements, proselytize in classrooms during school
hours, but the pedagogy and curriculum of the schools were not based
exclusively on one religious perspective, as occurs in Waldorf. Not only
does Waldorf proselytize in the classroom, it is based on one religious
worldview--Anthroposophy. In the 1970s, in New Jersey, there was a case
where Transcendental Meditation in the classroom and the school was claiming
that TM was not a religion but a science. The Christian Legal Society sued
and won by proving that TM is a religion. The school had to remove it from
the classroom. (Similar to Waldorf's claim of "nonsectarianism" and
Anthroposophy's false claim of being a science, not a religion). There have
been some fairly recent separation victories such as the case in Rhea County
Tennessee--where students from the fundamentalist Bryan College participated
in the Bible Education Ministry program and taught Bible stories to kids
during school hours, like Waldorf does. The judge compared it to Sunday
school and declared it unconstitutional.
The pro-religious instruction side has also won some victories, for example,
Child Evangelism Fellowship, a worldwide Christian missionary org that saves
children's souls for the Lord Jesus Christ, won a Supreme Court battle not
very long ago, to proselytize on public school property, BUT, only *after*
school hours. Decades ago, Vashti McCollum won a famous Supreme Court
victory removing religious instruction from public schools, and the Freedom
From Religion Foundation often uses that precedent in their litigation
against public schools that violate the Constitution. Over the years there
have been *many* fights to remove religious plaques etc from public schools
as well as prayer, and furors over the pledge. Recently, in the ninth
circuit court (same court that will hear the PLANS case) the words "under
God" in the pledge uttered in public schools, were ruled unconstitutional.
Basically, in Mike Newdow's victory, the judge agreed that those words
violated a person's religious freedom in an oath that was supposed to offer
liberty for all. (The pledge is an endorsement of the Christian religion
because the god mentioned is a Christian god, and the oath swears an
allegiance to Monotheism, excluding tax paying atheists, agnostics and all
other believers from other faiths like Anthroposophy. Originally, the pledge
stated that we are "one nation, indivisible", but the words "under God" were
substituted about 50 years ago). When this ruling came down, within one
hour, the Senate stopped all business to vote on a resolution that it be
over turned, and it passed 99 to nothing (Jesse Helms was absent). Even
Feingold and Wellstone voted for the resolution because they knew it would
be political suicide not to! (90% of Americans believe in "God" but around
40 million of us don't). In the house, only 3 out of 435 members voted
against condemning the court decision. Unfortunately, I seriously doubt the
pledge decision will stand. I've noticed that The Lemon test is often used
in church/state cases to determine whether a challenged policy has a secular
purpose. It is very interesting to watch the back and forth that ensues in
these cases, an interesting hobby of mine.
I don't really know what cases the PLANS lawyer will use, but I do know that
PLANS has some pretty good (damning (G)) evidence that clearly shows
Anthroposophy in the classroom, that is, religious instruction in the
specific public schools PLANS is suing. PLANS has also entered into evidence
lots of flyers etc. that came home to parents which document the religious
persuasion of the illegal Anthroposophic Waldorf public schools being sued.
I hear there is a stack of evidence three feet deep, PLANS is not talking
about a mere prayer, or a couple words in an oath (G)!
The state may not, according to our Constitution, advance or endorse any
religion, it must remain neutral. This is to ensure freedom of religion and
belief for all.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:00:59 -0500
From: "Lisa D. Ercolano" (momof2gals mindspring.com)
Subject: charter schools in Maryland?
Just thought I would mention that here in Maryland, our new governor (Robert
Ehrlich) is strongly in favor of allowing the opening of charter schools,
though the teachers' unions and school boards all over the state disagree.
To my knowledge, there is only one charter school in Maryland -- a
Montessori charter.
It will be interesting to follow how this turns out. Ehrlich is convinced
that charter schools will give that state's many underprivileged kids and
families more options and choice in schools. Research seems to show,
however, that charter schools don't seem to work to improve test scores,
instruction, etc.
Baltimore City for several years has had something called the Small Schools
Initiative, under which groups can apply to open what are basically charter
schools -- public schools run by private groups.
I wonder if any groups will express interest in opening a Waldorf charter
here. (We have several Waldorf schools and initiatives, but they are all
private.)
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:07:27 -0500
From: "Lisa D. Ercolano" (momof2gals mindspring.com)
Subject: anyone ever heard of ...
.. a Dr. Rosalie Wartenberg, who founded something called The Creations
School?
I recently heard something about this preschool, which apparently is on Long
Island, on radio. The school was described as one of the few "non sectarian"
and "non religious" preschool programs in the area.
I did a Google search on the founder's name, and no dice ... nothing came
up. The only thing I could find about the school itself was that
Conservative radio talk show host Sean Hannity (author of "Let Freedom
Ring," a former New York Times bestseller) is doing a fundraiser for the
school.
Probably has nothing to do with Waldorf, but whenever I hear the word "non
sectarian," my mind jumps to SWA. I also think the name of the school has a
connotation which contradicts the 'non religious' claim. But what do I know?
;)
Lisa (who is wondering why things are so darned quiet on this list these
days!)
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 967
-- Topica Digest --
Re: charter schools in Maryland?/and Montessori question
By alice.javanet rcn.com
Re: charter schools in Maryland?/and Montessori question
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:20:40 -0500
From: Al's stuff (alice.javanet rcn.com)
Subject: Re: charter schools in Maryland?/and Montessori question
on 2/14/03 5:00 PM, Lisa D. Ercolano at momof2gals mindspring.com wrote:
)
)
) Just thought I would mention that here in Maryland, our new governor (Robert
) Ehrlich) is strongly in favor of allowing the opening of charter schools,
) though the teachers' unions and school boards all over the state disagree.
)
) To my knowledge, there is only one charter school in Maryland -- a
) Montessori charter.
)snips(
Alice here:
Just wondering about the religious character of Montessori.
Now having my ex-w. survivor son at Montessori, I am curious about the
elements of their belief system. It does seem to extend beyond the sciences
into the realm of citizen of the world, etc. There is an emphasis on
studying other cultures as well. Of course it is so obvious (well, for
survivors..) in waldorf.. but is that because of the "super/other worldly"
aspect (unknown, unprovable) or is that because of the imposition of a made
up philosophical/religious underpinning?
I am just curious in thinking about the separation of church/state
question..
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:25:34 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: charter schools in Maryland?/and Montessori question
)Alice here:
)Just wondering about the religious character of Montessori.
)Now having my ex-w. survivor son at Montessori, I am curious about the
)elements of their belief system. It does seem to extend beyond the sciences
)into the realm of citizen of the world, etc. There is an emphasis on
)studying other cultures as well. Of course it is so obvious (well, for
)survivors..) in waldorf.. but is that because of the "super/other worldly"
)aspect (unknown, unprovable) or is that because of the imposition of a made
)up philosophical/religious underpinning?
) I am just curious in thinking about the separation of church/state
)question..
Montessori was a Theosophist, and I've seen some Christians denounce
the Montessori schools because of that. I don't think it's merited.
From what I've read from Montessori herself, her education theory
attempted to be scientific. She doesn't read like Steiner -at all-.
There is a chain of Montessori schools "Montessori International"
organized by the cult Church Universal and Triumphant (CUT), watch
out for them. It may have been an encounter with that group that got
the abovementioned Christians' red flags up.
http://www.tsl.org/Messengers/ecp.asp
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 968
-- Topica Digest --
RE: charter schools in Maryland?/and Montessori question
By sufrito53 yahoo.com
a pump is not a heart?
By feetapparel hotmail.com
Re: a pump is not a heart?
By dan dandugan.com
Re: a pump is not a heart?
By feetapparel hotmail.com
Re: and Montessori question plus comparison commentary/follow up
digression
By alice.javanet rcn.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:27:16 +0000
From: Su (sufrito53 yahoo.com)
Subject: RE: charter schools in Maryland?/and Montessori question
Dan Dugan wrote:
) )Alice here:
) )Just wondering about the religious character of Montessori.
) )Now having my ex-w. survivor son at Montessori, I am curious about the
) )elements of their belief system. It does seem to extend beyond the
) )sciences
) )into the realm of citizen of the world, etc. There is an emphasis on
) )studying other cultures as well. Of course it is so obvious (well, for
) )survivors..) in waldorf.. but is that because of the "super/other
) )worldly"
) )aspect (unknown, unprovable) or is that because of the imposition of a
) )made
) )up philosophical/religious underpinning?
) ) I am just curious in thinking about the separation of church/state
) )question..
)
) Montessori was a Theosophist, and I've seen some Christians denounce
) the Montessori schools because of that. I don't think it's merited.
) From what I've read from Montessori herself, her education theory
) attempted to be scientific. She doesn't read like Steiner -at all-.
)
) There is a chain of Montessori schools "Montessori International"
) organized by the cult Church Universal and Triumphant (CUT), watch
) out for them. It may have been an encounter with that group that got
) the abovementioned Christians' red flags up.
)
) http://www.tsl.org/Messengers/ecp.asp
)
) -Dan Dugan
)
)
)
Su here; Just want to add, as some of us know, there is a book called
400 Years of Imaginary Friends, by Kenneth and Talita Paolini, and you
might want to check out Joe Szimhart's website too. All were in the cult
of CUT and Talita taught at one of these so-called "Montessori" schools,
which have a different name; Montessori International. There are some
interesting similarities between Anthroposophy, Theosophy, and CUT.
(So many of these belief systems are linked by common beliefs, while
they are independent organizations.)
-Su
It ain't over 'til it's over--Yogi Berra
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:51:07 +0000
From: "Peter Farrell" (feetapparel hotmail.com)
Subject: a pump is not a heart?
I draw your attention to the February edition of
http://www.SouthernCrossReview.org
where there is an article on the heart is not a pump. I have had a breif
look but I have not found any articles debunking this view in a sytematic
way. Is anyone aware of any such debunking? If not it would be a good thing
to have some person who is an expert in heart and circulatory physiolgy have
a look at the articles which are available with a view to a debunking. Of
course, having read this stuff, a previously unexposed physiologist might be
convinced.
See you, Peter
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones.?Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:41:20 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: a pump is not a heart?
Peter Farrell, you wrote:
)I draw your attention to the February edition of
)
)http://www.SouthernCrossReview.org
)where there is an article on the heart is not a pump. I have had a
)breif look but I have not found any articles debunking this view in
)a sytematic way. Is anyone aware of any such debunking? If not it
)would be a good thing to have some person who is an expert in heart
)and circulatory physiolgy have a look at the articles which are
)available with a view to a debunking. Of course, having read this
)stuff, a previously unexposed physiologist might be convinced.
)See you, Peter
Any suggestions as to who might do it? The problem I see is the same
one we have with education experts--motivation. Why should they care
what a lunatic fringe group believes?
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:52:15 +0000
From: "Peter Farrell" (feetapparel hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: a pump is not a heart?
Dan wrote
)Any suggestions as to who might do it? The problem I see is the same one we
)have with education experts--motivation. Why should they care what a
)lunatic fringe group believes?
)
)-Dan Dugan
)
I've been thinking about that and I don't know anyone personally with both
the motivation and the time. Few understand how time consuming it is chasing
down every claim in such an article or series of articles. The only person
who might know a person who has the skills and the motivation is Stephen
Barrett (Quackwatch). He may have someone on his books interested in such a
challenge.
It is useful to list the claims (at least on the large scale) that require
reasonably sophisticated answers. I suggest
1. the heart has insufficient power to pump the blood.
2. blood flows in embryos before the heart is formed.
These seem to me to be the key claims. I do know that the modelling of blood
flow is not a straightforward proposition. The power calculations need to be
sophisticated. I have not seen a video of blood flowing in the absence of a
heart, nor do I feel comfortable that I could make judgement about whether
what was being explained to me was really the case if I were to see such a
demonstration or to see a video. See you, Peter
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones.?Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:34:36 -0500
From: Al's stuff (alice.javanet rcn.com)
Subject: Re: and Montessori question plus comparison commentary/follow up
digression
on 2/16/03 7:27 PM, Su at sufrito53 yahoo.com wrote:
)snips from Dan,original question from Alice(
))
) Su here; Just want to add, as some of us know, there is a book called
) 400 Years of Imaginary Friends, by Kenneth and Talita Paolini, and you
) might want to check out Joe Szimhart's website too. All were in the cult
) of CUT and Talita taught at one of these so-called "Montessori" schools,
) which have a different name; Montessori International. There are some
) interesting similarities between Anthroposophy, Theosophy, and CUT.
)
) (So many of these belief systems are linked by common beliefs, while
) they are independent organizations.)
)
) -Su
)
)
) It ain't over 'til it's over--Yogi Berra
Alice here:
Hi Su, I knew there must be more information somewhere, thanks you. My son
is doing quite well in his third year at the local Montessori school
(Northampton, Massachusetts, USA) But I chose it in my panic post-waldorf
time because it was the closest to what he had known,(his sister was still
at w. at the time..) it was a mixed age classroom (so his summer
birthday/year older than everyone wouldn't show quite as much..)
I have to tell you that when I first applied, Montessori had refused us an
initial interview. Rejected my son, sight unseen because of what W. had to
say about him. One of my personal support people (my acupuncturist) urged me
to try again.. to go in and face them to show them who we were and ask that
they at least meet my son before rejecting us. I did, and after the time in
the classroom for a morning, they hesitantly decided to take us.
It hasn't always felt "perfect" for us, but I was so grateful to get back on
track somewhere after our hellish year.
My son is well loved in the classroom - and he is known as the ballet boy of
the school. Behavior that was deemed "abnormally sexual" has either
disappeared, never existed or was re-framed in the real world of children.
He still "vogues" at home, but it is all about dancing and having a big
sister..I have never witnessed anything sexualized or inappropriate
developmentally in his behavior at home. I can't help but think that all of
what happened was about the other boy's sexual behavior with my son at
Waldorf. It is still very much an unresolved issue for me.. there has been
no justice... and I wonder about the other boys who witnessed this behavior
on the playground (in the big wooden boat, out of sight) according to my
son..If it was a "normal" school I would've called the other parents and
made sure that they were aware of what happened to make sure their child was
able to process the events, rather than store them somewhere in their psyche
only to re-emerge with pathological consequences.
but as we all know, it isn't a "normal" school at all and no one wants to
hear about what happened.. "let them sleep" is what I would be told...
it is (obviously) a continuous source of worry for me..how much
responsibility to take of the one's left?
*sigh*
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 969
-- Topica Digest --
Re: a pump is not a heart?
By mysplum earthlink.net
RE: and Montessori question plus comparison commentary/follow
up digress
By sufrito53 yahoo.com
RE: a pump is not a heart?
By sufrito53 yahoo.com
Re: a pump is not a heart?
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
Re: a pump is not a heart?
By feetapparel hotmail.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:22:41 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: a pump is not a heart?
on 2/16/03 9:52 PM, Peter Farrell at feetapparel hotmail.com wrote:
) Dan wrote
)) Any suggestions as to who might do it? The problem I see is the same one we
)) have with education experts--motivation. Why should they care what a
)) lunatic fringe group believes?
Sharon: I would love to read a debunking from a leading heart expert. On
rare occasions "lunatic fringe groups" actually do hit on something that's
useful or valid for the rest of us, perhaps this could be the motivation?
What bugs me about the article is that it really doesn't speak about what
drives the blood, so the reader doesn't realize that they are reading a
religious perspective. The writer doesn't tell us that the spirits of Yahweh
Elohim united themselves in love through the chest-being at the beginning of
Earth evolution. The reader doesn't learn about the "second sun" that dwells
in the blood, in pulse beat and in rhythm which is really the point of the
article, don't you think? The author wants to debunk the accepted science in
order to validate and establish Anthroposophic religious belief. Somebody
unfamiliar with Anthroposophy and their claim that the second sun is
responsible for blood circulation might actually think the article is
scientific, not a religious perspective.
I finally got my hands on Ann Harrington's "Reenchanted Science" which I
highly recommend to anyone wanting to learn more about holism vs.
"mechanistic" science. The book has reinforced my interpretation of "holism"
as a religion.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:35:00 +0000
From: Su (sufrito53 yahoo.com)
Subject: RE: and Montessori question plus comparison
commentary/follow up digress
Al's stuff wrote:
) on 2/16/03 7:27 PM, Su at sufrito53 yahoo.com wrote:
)
) )snips from Dan,original question from Alice(
) ))
) ) Su here; Just want to add, as some of us know, there is a book called
) ) 400 Years of Imaginary Friends, by Kenneth and Talita Paolini, and you
) ) might want to check out Joe Szimhart's website too. All were in the cult
) ) of CUT and Talita taught at one of these so-called "Montessori" schools,
) ) which have a different name; Montessori International. There are some
) ) interesting similarities between Anthroposophy, Theosophy, and CUT.
) )
) ) (So many of these belief systems are linked by common beliefs, while
) ) they are independent organizations.)
) )
) ) -Su
) )
) )
) ) It ain't over 'til it's over--Yogi Berra
)
) Alice here:
) Hi Su, I knew there must be more information somewhere, thanks you. My
) son
) is doing quite well in his third year at the local Montessori school
) (Northampton, Massachusetts, USA) But I chose it in my panic
) post-waldorf
) time because it was the closest to what he had known,(his sister was
) still
) at w. at the time..) it was a mixed age classroom (so his summer
) birthday/year older than everyone wouldn't show quite as much..)
) I have to tell you that when I first applied, Montessori had refused us
) an
) initial interview. Rejected my son, sight unseen because of what W. had
) to
) say about him. One of my personal support people (my acupuncturist)
) urged me
) to try again.. to go in and face them to show them who we were and ask
) that
) they at least meet my son before rejecting us. I did, and after the time
) in
) the classroom for a morning, they hesitantly decided to take us.
) It hasn't always felt "perfect" for us, but I was so grateful to get
) back on
) track somewhere after our hellish year.
) My son is well loved in the classroom - and he is known as the ballet
) boy of
) the school. Behavior that was deemed "abnormally sexual" has either
) disappeared, never existed or was re-framed in the real world of
) children.
) He still "vogues" at home, but it is all about dancing and having a big
) sister..I have never witnessed anything sexualized or inappropriate
) developmentally in his behavior at home. I can't help but think that all
) of
) what happened was about the other boy's sexual behavior with my son at
) Waldorf. It is still very much an unresolved issue for me.. there has
) been
) no justice... and I wonder about the other boys who witnessed this
) behavior
) on the playground (in the big wooden boat, out of sight) according to my
) son..If it was a "normal" school I would've called the other parents and
) made sure that they were aware of what happened to make sure their child
) was
) able to process the events, rather than store them somewhere in their
) psyche
) only to re-emerge with pathological consequences.
) but as we all know, it isn't a "normal" school at all and no one wants
) to
) hear about what happened.. "let them sleep" is what I would be told...
) it is (obviously) a continuous source of worry for me..how much
) responsibility to take of the one's left?
) *sigh*
Another expression, I have heard from a Waldorf teacher was that of
"keep them dreamy" which means in a sort of hazy, (trancelike?) state,
where they aren't thinking too much, not too much "in their heads" as is
mentioned by others.
It sounds like you lucked out and escaped being victimized by a CUT
Montessori School. Sounds like you are attending just an ordinary
Montessori School. I don't know what the structure of these schools is,
whether there is a central administrative organization, like ASWNA,
which makes these schools more uniform in terms of their structure and
intent. Montessori has some religious overtones but it is usually up
front, as they may be housed by a Catholic or church-related
institution. My brother went to a Montessori School, but attended in
the older grades(at 11 to 13 years old), but it didn't do too much for
him,from his report.
-Su
It ain't over 'til it's over--Yogi Berra
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:26:46 +0000
From: Su (sufrito53 yahoo.com)
Subject: RE: a pump is not a heart?
mysplum wrote:
) on 2/16/03 9:52 PM, Peter Farrell at feetapparel hotmail.com wrote:
)
) ) Dan wrote
) )) Any suggestions as to who might do it? The problem I see is the same one
) )) we
) )) have with education experts--motivation. Why should they care what a
) )) lunatic fringe group believes?
)
) Sharon: I would love to read a debunking from a leading heart expert. On
) rare occasions "lunatic fringe groups" actually do hit on something
) that's
) useful or valid for the rest of us, perhaps this could be the
) motivation?
) What bugs me about the article is that it really doesn't speak about
) what
) drives the blood, so the reader doesn't realize that they are reading a
) religious perspective. The writer doesn't tell us that the spirits of
) Yahweh
) Elohim united themselves in love through the chest-being at the
) beginning of
) Earth evolution. The reader doesn't learn about the "second sun" that
) dwells
) in the blood, in pulse beat and in rhythm which is really the point of
) the
) article, don't you think? The author wants to debunk the accepted
) science in
) order to validate and establish Anthroposophic religious belief.
) Somebody
) unfamiliar with Anthroposophy and their claim that the second sun is
) responsible for blood circulation might actually think the article is
) scientific, not a religious perspective.
)
) I finally got my hands on Ann Harrington's "Reenchanted Science" which I
) highly recommend to anyone wanting to learn more about holism vs.
) "mechanistic" science. The book has reinforced my interpretation of
) "holism"
) as a religion.
Su here: Any medically trained persons or physiologists on the board?
C'mon, all ... Well then it's up to me. My training as a health
professional did impart to me the knowledge that no organ in the body
works independently of any other. I have been watching this discussion
now for months, and I want to clarify things a bit.
The heart is the main pump of the body, though the arteries are helper,
secondary pumps, that facilitate the movement of blood from the heart to
all parts of the body. There are hormones secreted in the blood, and
receptors in the heart that interact to activate smooth muscle
throughout the circulatory system, to widen or narrow the arteries and
change blood pressure.
Receptors in the heart tell the heart that there is an increase of
sodium, and the vessels then absorb more water, and these receptors,
which are very complex, also communicate in the kidneys, with the
circulatory system, to excrete water, when there is too much. So you
see, the kidneys are involved in regulating the salts (aka
"electrolytes") and the heart definitely collaborates here.
The venous system, (the blue colored vessels) are the vessels that
return the blood from the body to the heart and to the lungs for
re-oxygenation, wherein they are then pumped back to the body. It gets
more complex when you start to talk about the digestive system, which
takes all of this in, and how the kidney decides to filter.
Now the veins are without much smooth muscle and don't really pulsate to
return the blood to the heart,so the heart pumps this blood with the
help of valves (preventing back flow) and are helped by the movement of
the skeletal muscle and the movement of the body. That's why it's
important to move around or elevate your legs, when you are on an
airplane or a car, because many people can suffer from thromboses from
venous stasis, which means, blood clots can form when you sit still too
long (especially old people, but even young 'uns can get this rarely.)
That means even breathing can increase venous return to the heart, which
is what explains why in meditation, the in and out breathing, and the
valsalva movement (straining against the diaphragm) can affect heart
rhythm, and even be used when a person experiences tachycardia to slow
heart rate. There are certain pressure points in the eyes, and the
carotids which when pressed can affect rate and rhythm of the heart.
I am not recommending any of this information is the last word,since
people spend lifetimes studying the heart and its intricacies and my
apologies to anyone if I seem to be condescending. I myself, took years
to start to feel confident of my very general understanding of it, and I
am not a cardiologist, by any means. Anyway, if you haven't taken a
course in physiology, this simplified description may be a bit helpful.
The heart is the main pump of the human body, but is facilitated by the
homeostatic interrelations of the kidneys, the arterial and venous
systems, and the movement of the lungs, diaphragm and skeletal muscle,
and a gazillion other things that I can't go into here.
Just to make things more complicated, the heart is also innervated by
the Central Nervous System, though it is autonomically (automatically
)controlled. That is why it is affected by emotions and physical
stressors, temperature and other things.
So, as you can see, the heart IS a pump, and is a lot of other things
besides, but it doesn't do the job in a vacuum, but with the help of
almost every other part and organ of the body.
For instance, if you have high cholesterol, or diabetes, you may develop
arteriosclerosis, and then your arteries can't help you pump your blood
or regulate pressure as much because they get stiff and can't respond to
blood pressure needs and changes.
So, Rudy, how can you say that the heart is not a pump, man??? It is,
and it is much more. And lots of other organs help it.
As for fetal blood, well if you look at the development of the different
phyla or of animals, you will see that as we developed in the animal
kingdom, the more complex the organism, the more clearly the heart has
specialized. We as mammals actually have two hearts that evolved into
one. The left side of the human heart pumps the blood from the lungs to
the body via arterial blood, and the right heart pumps the blood to the
lungs from the body, with the help of the skeletal and venous system,
which has valves, rather than muscles. Dysfunction of the venous valves,
as well as stretching of the veins is what causes varicosities, and can
be painful as well as a cause for blood clots. Blood clots can also
occur in the arteries but it's much rarer.
Earthworms don't need too much of a heart, and have a simpler version,
which facilitates a very wriggly body. Blood doesn't need too much heart
pumping in the worm because of the musculature of the worm, and the less
complex anatomy.
Sorry again for the long-windedness of this. Hopefully it supports the
theory that the heart *IS* a pump, but also imparts the understanding of
how the body interacts with the heart.
What Steiner tries to achieve here is a distortion or half-truth, in not
putting all the information out in full view so that it can be
understood in terms of the science of its function.
That's where Anthroposophy and Waldorf Education dupes those who swallow
it's propaganda. Half truths are easier to swallow than
out-and-out lies. That's how I think Waldorf gets away with a lot of its
developmental theory, and its distortion of science and art. It refers
to outdated material, distorts scientifically proven theory, and mis (or
mal-)communicates its notions of child development.
That's why if you don't take apart the words of Steiner and Waldorf
Educators, piece by piece, and even word for word, you might miss its
verbal sleight of hand!!!!!!!
The Heart Is A Pump!!!
Sincerely, Su
It ain't over 'til it's over--Yogi Berra
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:18:13 +1030
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Re: a pump is not a heart?
At 17-02-03 09:22 AM Monday, Sharon wrote:
)I finally got my hands on Ann Harrington's "Reenchanted Science" which I
)highly recommend to anyone wanting to learn more about holism vs.
)"mechanistic" science. The book has reinforced my interpretation of "holism"
)as a religion.
Have you checked out its use in other contexts yet? I'm curious to see
whether you'd say it's being used in that way in the context where I first
encountered it. I'd really like to know your opinion.
To repeat, that context was Douglas Hofstadter's "Godel, Escher, Bach: An
Eternal Golden Braid" - a discussion of recursion and its role in
Artificial Intelligence systems, among other things, as I recall.
Willow
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:12:27 +0000
From: "Peter Farrell" (feetapparel hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: a pump is not a heart?
Sharon wrote:
)I would love to read a debunking from a leading heart expert. On
)rare occasions "lunatic fringe groups" actually do hit on something )that's
)useful or valid for the rest of us, perhaps this could be the )motivation?
)What bugs me about the article is that it really doesn't )speak about what
)drives the blood, so the reader doesn't realize that )they are reading a
)religious perspective. The writer doesn't tell us )that the spirits of
)Yahweh Elohim united themselves in love through )the chest-being at the
)beginning of Earth evolution.
Peter responds:
This lack of honesty about the ultimate objective doesn't bug me. It seems
to me like it's par for the course. The proximate objective is to show that
one can do real science based on these ideas. Of course the people doing
this fail because they are not prepared to change their minds on the basis
of evidence. They are only interested in evidence (regardless of how shonky)
that supports their prejudiced world view. The thing that bugs me is that
they turn around and accuse every body else of this failing without
recognising it in themselves.
I can't debunk the biological stuff, although it seems to me to be such
obvious nonsense that it is hardly worth it. On the other hand I don't the
authors ought to be able to get away with it.
I can debunk Marinelli's claims about the motion of objects on rotating
surfaces. See http://www.elib.com/Steiner/RelArtic/Marinelli/fp.html. In my
view a simple reading of the references is a good start. Here they are:
1. Galileo, Two New Sciences. 1637, pages 95,251-252 translated from Italian
to English by Henry Crew and Alfonso De Salvio, 1914, Dover Publications, NY
2. Rudolf Steiner, 1919, The Light Course, Anthroposophic Press Hudson, NY
3. Rudolf Steiner, 1920, The Heat Course, Anthroposophic Press, Hudson, NY
4. Rudolf Steiner, 1921, The Relation of the Diverse Branches of Science to
Astronomy, Anthroposophic Press, Hudson, NY
5. Isaac Newton, Principia, 1687, revised by author 1713 and 1726.
Translated from Latin to English by Andrew Motte, 1848, Prometheus Books,
Amherst, NY, 1995
6. S. Mason, 1979, A History of the Sciences, Collier Books, New York, NY.
Note that there are no references to any publications on motion (excluding
Steiner) more recent than Newton. No scientist would consult Newton in order
to be certain that they had the equations of motion correct for some
experiment. There are any number of texts and journals much more recent,
using modern notation and with all or most of the pitfalls for the newcomer
or unwary clearly marked. Instead Marinelli apparently relies on his own
memory to obtain simplistic and, in some cases, incorrect predictions of
Newtonian mechanics.
The experiments he describes fall into two classes. Simple experiemnts one
can do using one's arms and coins, and more complicated experiments
involving ball bearings and marbles and turntables. These experiments are
designed to refute the Newtonian view that a particle travelling in
constrained circular motion (ball on the end of a string) travells in a
straight line tangential to the circle on being released. Marinelli
encourages the reader to attempt the simple expeiments in order to convince
themselves that generations of physicists have got this wrong. Marinelli's
paper ought to be included in dictionaries as an example of the meaning of
arrogance. I attempted the experiments and was convinced that the standard
descriptions of the events were indeed correct and that Marinelli's
descriptions were wrong.
The turntable experiments are more complicated. He describes a turntable
(remember those things you used to play vinyl records on) into which he has
drilled a small circular depression. He places a marble or ball bearing in
the depression and then rotates the tuntable slowly increasing the speed of
rotation. At some angular velocity the speed of the rotation will be
sufficient for the ball to lift from the hole and start to roll on the
turntable before falling off the edge. Marinelli incorrectly asserts that
the motopn of the ball after leaving the hole should be tangential to its
previous circular motion. This is not true, because that motion of the ball
is disturbed by its rolling on the surface of the moving turntable. Once can
show that the motion of the ball is a circular path on the turntable. See
for example "A ball rolling on a freely spinning turntable'' by Warren
Weckesser [Am. J. Phys. 65 (8), 736--738 (1997)] and the following including
abstract:
American Journal of Physics -- April 1995 -- Volume 63, Issue 4, pp. 351-359
Ball on a rotating turntable: Comparison of theory and experiment
Robert Ehrlich and Jaroslaw Tuszynski
George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia 22030
We have extended the work of others in developing a model for the motion of
a ball on a rotating turntable. The numerical model does not impose the
constraint of rolling without slipping, and includes both rolling and
sliding friction. Computer output from the model is compared with
experimental trajectories obtained from time exposures, and found to be in
excellent agreement. ?1995 American Association of Physics Teachers.
Marinelli's paper was published in 1998, and so any reasonable scholar
should have been aware of these or some older alternatives and indeed
referenced them in his paper. Marinelli's incorrect Newtonian predictions
invalidate his argument that the results of his experiments demonstrate that
the Newtonian view is incorrect. The modelling I have done suggests that the
described results of Marinelli's experiments are consistent with Newtonian
physics, although I would like a little more detail to be sure of this.
For many years stroboscopic techniques have been used to show the passage of
balls and similar objects when their motion has been too quick for human
certainty of the path. Note that Marinelli uses none of these. Equally video
or film is an excellent tool for this pupose. Also not used by Marinelli. So
we have his word that the outcomes of the experiments were as he described,
and no other evidence, despite the fact that the theory he is arguing
against has already been extremely well tested by thousands of scientists
in thousands of experiments. Another example of arrogance.
Much of the rest of Marinelli's paper concerns the difference between linear
and circular motion from the point of view of calculus. As I read
Marinelli's paper, he is arguing that calculus is incorrect, claiming
Galileo as an authority. Well I can only say that Galileo predates the
proofs of calculus by some time. Galileo may not have been convinced since
he was pretty argumentative, but I think this part of the paper is even more
arrogant than the part on physics.
So we have poor scholarship, misunderstanding of the theory being tested,
and insufficient evidence and data presented in the paper. I have found no
follow up to this work in the four or so years since it was published. There
has been plenty of time to remedy the flaws, produce more and convincing
evidence and indeed to publish a retraction, but none of these have been
done. The paper still sits on the website quoted above as an example of the
scientific research coming out of Anthroposophy and it is probably a good
example.
Peter
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 970
-- Topica Digest --
Re: a pump is not a heart?
By mysplum earthlink.net
Everson vs. Board of Education of Ewing atn. Peter F.
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: a pump is not a heart?
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
Re: a pump is not a heart?
By feetapparel hotmail.com
Holism as viewed through Hofstadter's 'Goedel, Escher, Bach:
An Eternal Golden
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
RE: a pump is not a heart?
By sufrito53 yahoo.com
That silence
By Percedol netscape.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:55:52 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: a pump is not a heart?
on 2/17/03 7:48 PM, Willow Firesong at willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
wrote:
) At 17-02-03 09:22 AM Monday, Sharon wrote:
)) I finally got my hands on Ann Harrington's "Reenchanted Science" which I
)) highly recommend to anyone wanting to learn more about holism vs.
)) "mechanistic" science. The book has reinforced my interpretation of "holism"
)) as a religion.
)
) Have you checked out its use in other contexts yet? I'm curious to see
) whether you'd say it's being used in that way in the context where I first
) encountered it. I'd really like to know your opinion.
Sharon: Thanks for your recommendation, I'll get around to reading it
eventually. My opinions do evolve, so it is possible that I might change my
mind about "holism". You must read Harrington's book if you haven't. Steiner
is not really dealt with, (only a tiny mention) but the book is very useful
because it gives a distillation of Steiner's cultural milieu.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:35:57 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Everson vs. Board of Education of Ewing atn. Peter F.
Sharon: Peter, you were asking about legal precedents and I just stumbled
across the following: Everson vs. Board of Education of Ewing, 330 U.S. 1
(1947). Justice David Souter is a proponent of the First Amendment and
upholds church/state separation. Back in 2002, regarding Ohio's voucher
program, he said:
"...The applicability of the Establishment Clause to public funding of
benefits to religious schools was settled in Everson vs. Board of Education
of Ewing, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), which inaugurated the modern era of
establishment doctrine. The Court stated the principle in words from which
there was no dissent:
"No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any
religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or
whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion".
The Court has never in so many words repudiated this statement, let alone,
in so many words, over ruled Everson." (Freethought Today, August 22002 p
11).
Sharon: Souter's dissents are great reading, as far as I know, Everson still
stands.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 03:52:53 +1030
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Re: a pump is not a heart?
) ) At 17-02-03 09:22 AM Monday, Sharon wrote:
) )) I finally got my hands on Ann Harrington's "Reenchanted Science" which I
) )) highly recommend to anyone wanting to learn more about holism vs.
) )) "mechanistic" science. The book has reinforced my interpretation of
) "holism"
) )) as a religion.
) )
)on 2/17/03 7:48 PM, Willow Firesong wrote:
) ) Have you checked out its use in other contexts yet? I'm curious to see
) ) whether you'd say it's being used in that way in the context where I first
) ) encountered it. I'd really like to know your opinion.
Willow Firesong:
I only ask about this other use of "holism" because I don't think the two
uses are related - and if anyone would be likely to either know, or ferret
out any connection, it's you. I want to know if I'm right in my impression
that there are basically two different terms being used in confusing, and
often incorrectly interchanged ways - or if there really is a connection
between those terms, other than just the word used for them. :)
)Sharon: Thanks for your recommendation, I'll get around to reading it
)eventually. My opinions do evolve, so it is possible that I might change my
)mind about "holism". You must read Harrington's book if you haven't. Steiner
)is not really dealt with, (only a tiny mention) but the book is very useful
)because it gives a distillation of Steiner's cultural milieu.
Willow Firesong:
When I can, I'd love to. I tend to file your recommendations away for
later; I'm not in a position to buy books (or use the library - insert
long rant here about toxic cleaning fluids used on public library books)
right now, so a lot of things are having to wait - and with good
recommendations, like the ones you offer, I put them into files, by
category, so I can be sure not to lose them. I greatly value your breadth
of knowledge in these areas, it helps me choose better texts when I *do*
have the opportunity to read up on the subject. Best to focus one's energy
on key books, rather than tangential ones, after all.
Willow Firesong
---
A belief is a conclusion to which one subscribes strongly: "Our belief in
any particular natural law cannot have a safer basis than our unsuccessful
critical attempts to refute it" (Karl Popper).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:43:54 +0000
From: "Peter Farrell" (feetapparel hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: a pump is not a heart?
I would like to second Willow's recommendation of Gedel Escher and Bach
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465026567/qid=1045607380/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-3981922-3422426?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
This is one of my favourite books, slightly dated now since Fermat's last
theorem has been proved. The discussion of the relationship between holism
and reductionism is enlightening and offers little comfort to some of our
recent advocates of holism. For me the highlight of the book is a
demonstration of the equivalence of the language of the genetic code with a
mathematical formalism for generating mathematical theorems. Absolutely
priceless.
Peter
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:31:30 +1030
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Holism as viewed through Hofstadter's 'Goedel, Escher, Bach:
An Eternal Golden Braid' - was Re: a pump is not a heart?
At 18-02-03 10:43 PM Tuesday, Peter Farrell wrote:
)I would like to second Willow's recommendation of Gedel Escher and Bach
)(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465026567/qid=1045607380/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-3981922-3422426?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
)
)This is one of my favourite books, slightly dated now since Fermat's last
)theorem has been proved.
True, a tiny bit dated, but like all great works, it weathered the
intervening years quite well. This is particularly true because it didn't
try too hard to be cutting edge, but instead focused on what I consider to
be a foundation of fundamentals.
)The discussion of the relationship between holism and reductionism is
)enlightening and offers little comfort to some of our recent advocates of
)holism.
I can understand why you would say that - it offers no support at all for
many of the things I have seen claimed in the name of holism, which is why
I consider the book relevant to our discussion here, as an interesting
approach to the question of whether Smuts and his ilk (I find it ironic
that his name is very close to a Yiddish word for stains...) have the right
to any sort of exclusive claiming on the meaning and usage of the term.
)For me the highlight of the book is a demonstration of the equivalence of
)the language of the genetic code with a mathematical formalism for
)generating mathematical theorems. Absolutely priceless.
)Peter
As I have memory problems, and had to part with my copy some years ago (at
the time of our international move), I can't browse back through the book
and tell you which parts would be my favourite now. I wish *very* much
that I could, for this and many other reasons... *sigh*
However, at the time I read the piece, I particularly enjoyed the way each
chapter was illustrated with allegorical material using characters from
Aristotle's creations to those of Lewis Carroll (Rev. Dodgson - the
mathematician whose work unexpectedly graced Queen Victoria's children's
library, when, upon reading one of the Alice books, she ordered copies of
*all* of his works for the royal library, in one of my favourite celebrity
anecdotes; I consider it particularly suitable for his characters to be
used in this work as a result of this role as cross-over
mathematician/popular author), with odd historical figures such as Zeno (of
Zeno's paradox - which might be of interest to Anthroposophists interested
in mathematical "proof" why they'll never manage to surpass the head start
of those who argue in favour of real science, no matter how long the
race... ...after all, it's at least as reliable as the proofs I've seen
offered here, in support of Steiner / Waldorf schools' claims... (wink))
thrown in, for a wonderful allegory which always helped me to better
understand and relate to the material in the chapters. It also made both
the book and its points more comprehensible and more memorable, both.
I admit that the year or so that I spent living with this book (I reread it
so many times in that period that it began to fall apart, starting from
brand-new - and I have paperbacks I've read multiple times that you'd swear
have never been opened, to give you an idea how long that would take) was
also the year that I found and wallowed in a History of Mathematics course,
by choice, for the sheer joy of it - so you may want to take that into
account when trying to determine whether the book is likely to appeal to
you or others - but this has *always* since been one of my f