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-- Topica Digest --
Re: Goetheanum
By mysplum earthlink.net
Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
By dan dandugan.com
Camphill sucking on government grants
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
By dan dandugan.com
Closed windows on eurythmy lessons
By klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com
Re: Closed windows on eurythmy lessons
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Re: Camphill sucking on government grants
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
By nmfoss hotmail.com
Re: Camphill sucking on government grants
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Tobias Class
By klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com
Re: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
By jfk3 sprint.ca
Re: Camphill sucking on government grants
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
By dan dandugan.com
Re: special needs education
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more - was
Re: Waldorf Sun
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
Re: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more -
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: Goetheanum
By mysplum earthlink.net
RE: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more -
By qrejy hotmail.com
Re: Goetheanum
By mysplum earthlink.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:27:01 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Goetheanum
Sharon: When Steiner designed his Rosicrucian/mystical temples, (I know of
four that he built) he made sure that they were astrosophically-correct.
(Steiner adapted astrology to suit his spiritual worldview and dubbed it
astrosophy). Using his reworked astrological system, he determined exactly
where the portholes in the domes of his Rosicrucian temples should be
located for the sun to shine on certain pillars at a certain time of the
year. He determined how the building was to be orientated for the best
spiritual position in the cosmos, what colors were to be used for spiritual
purposes etc. When he laid the foundation stone for his above ground
Rosicrucian temple in Malsh, he met with a gathering of followers in the
middle of the night. The same goes for the mystical temple - the Goetheanum
- in Dornach. The first Goetheanum was burnt down, but Steiner was able to
redesign a subsequent building and rebuild out of concrete with the
insurance money he received. Here's what Vreede says about the occasion of
laying the foundation stone for the First Goetheanum in 1913. Note the two
dates used:
"When Mercury Stood in Libra
The Writing of the Stars
"THE APPROACHING OPENING of the Goetheanum at Michaelmas brings before the
soul that September evening when the foundation stone of the house dedicated
to spiritual science was laid at nightfall by Dr. Steiner in a solemn
ritual. With an invocation of the hierarchies the foundation stone, the
double dodechedron, "symbol in its twofold twelvefoldedness of the striving
human soul, was sunk as microcosm into the macrocosm," let down "into the
condensed kingdom of the elements". To this stone was added the document
that contained the solemn vow of humankind toward the spiritual world. This
document closed with the words: "Laid by the Johannes Building
Association...on the twentieth day of September 1880, after the Mystery of
Golgotha, that is, 1913 after the birth of Christ, when Mercury as evening
star stood in Libra, the Balance"
With these words the foundation stone was wedded also to the starry heavens.
With a few words a definite constellation was indicated, a constellation
that was considered so significant that it appeared in the foundation-stone
document next to the names of the mighty hierarchies. In that moment, on
that spot, as into the earth the stone was sunk upon which the new
Goetheanum will rise as if on its own foundation stone, this statement was
made. We can now ask: What does it wish to tell us?"
(p121. Sept. 1928 Elizabeth Vreede. Anthroposophy and Astrology, the
Astronomical Letters of Elizabeth Vreede. Anthroposophic Press. 2001)
Sharon: Tune in tomorrow for the next exciting installment and learn exactly
where the Sun was during all of this!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:22:13 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
Nicole Foss, you wrote,
)Can anyone tell me what constitutes special needs education in a
)Waldorf School? My eldest daughter spends time in the Tobias class
)when her classmates have music and languages because she's partially
)hearing, but they don't seem to do anything to help her with her
)difficulties. She does a lot of craft work, which she enjoys, but
)doesn't get any help with spelling or grammar. I'm starting to worry
)that she'll fail everything when she gets to high school because she
)can't write, and yet the school advertises itself as having a
)"strong remedial program".
Aha, I think "Tobias" is "Tomatis."
The Autumn issue of *Lilipoh*, the Anthroposophical medicine magazine
for consumers (Waldorf parents), has an obituary by Dr. Andrew Franck
PhD for Dr. Alfred Tomatis, "the noted French physician who
single-handedly recast the physiology, psychology and spiritual
significance of hearing and listening in the 20th century." That's
rather high praise, wonder why the Nobel committee hasn't heard of
him... Followers of Tomatis have a web site at:
http://www.tomatis.com
Tomatis claims their therapy helps with:
Attention Deficit Disorders (ADD)
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorders (ADHD)
Learning delays
Autism
Dyslexia
Balance and Coordination Problems
Sensory integration and motor skill difficulties
Asperger's Syndrome
Pervasive Development Disorder (PDD)
Down's Syndrome
It doesn't, however, shine shoes. The site has all the signs of
quackery. The research quoted is very thin. Tomatis is promoted by
Andrew Franck, director of The Healing Arts Center in Woodstock, NY,
http://www.healingartsonline.com
The Center offers "listening/sound therapy," though oddly he doesn't
mention the name Tomatis; the Tomatis site lists the Healing Arts as
a Tomatis Center. There are twelve licensed centers in the U.S.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:35:17 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Camphill sucking on government grants
Camphill Soltane, in Glenmoore, PA, which advertises itself as an
"anthroposophically based community" is soliciting workers with the
bait of $4725 AmeriCorps education awards. Camphill being about the
most Anthroposphical place you can be outside of an Anthroposophical
Society meeting, this is clearly an Establishment Clause violation.
Americorps regulations specifically prohibit "Religious Activities,
including engaging in religious instruction; conducting worship
services; providing instruction as part of a Program that includes
mandatory religious instruction or worship; constructing or operating
facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship; maintaining
facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction
or worship; or engaging in any form of religious proselytization. "
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:49:25 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
http://www.quackwatch.com has the following item:
-Dan Dugan
***
Many types of practitioners who profess to treat mental problems are
engaged in questionable practices. The following procedures should be
avoided.
Auditory Integration Training (AIT)
AIT was developed as a treatment for autism by Guy Berard in France
in the 1960s and was introduced into the United States in 1991. It
has also been advocated for children and adults with learning
disabilities, attention deficit disorder, depression, migraine
headaches, and many other conditions. Proponents claim that
individuals with these disorders often have hearing that is
disorganized, hypersensitive, different between the two ears, or
otherwise abnormal. The first step in AIT is an audiogram that
determines the auditory thresholds to more frequencies than are
typically measured during hearing tests. Suitable individuals then
undergo "training sessions" -- typically two half-hour sessions per
day over a 10-day period -- that involve listening to music that has
been computer-modified to remove frequencies to which they supposedly
are hypersensitive. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the
American Academy of Audiology have warned that no well-designed
scientific studies demonstrate that AIT is useful [1,2]. AIT devices
do not have FDA approval for treating autism, attention deficit
disorder, or any other medical problem. In 1997, the FDA banned the
importation of the Electric Ear or any other AIT device made by
Tomatis International, of Paris, France.
References
1. American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Children with
Disabilities. Auditory integration training and facilitated
communication for autism. Pediatrics 102:431-433, 1998.
2. Executive Committee, American Academy of Audiology. Position
statement: Auditory integration training. Audiology Today 5(4):21,
1993.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 21:26:22 +0000
From: Klaudia (klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com)
Subject: Closed windows on eurythmy lessons
I heard from one waldorf parent that windows must not be opened during
eurythmy lessons even if it's hot in the eurythmy room (and cool
outdoors) or air stinks. Reason to this:
spirits (or things like that) will fly out through opened window.
Does someone have similar or opposite experiences?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:33:34 -0500
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Closed windows on eurythmy lessons
Klaudia:
)I heard from one waldorf parent that windows must not be opened during
)eurythmy lessons even if it's hot in the eurythmy room (and cool
)outdoors) or air stinks. Reason to this:
)spirits (or things like that) will fly out through opened window.
More likely to prevent passersby, such as parents, from hearing the
complaints and outbursts and disruptions caused by the students who don't
want to do it.
Diana
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:25:42 -0800
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Camphill sucking on government grants
Dan Dugan Wrote:
Camphill Soltane, in Glenmoore, PA, which advertises itself as an
) "anthroposophically based community" is soliciting workers with the
) bait of $4725 AmeriCorps education awards. Camphill being about the
) most Anthroposphical place you can be outside of an Anthroposophical
) Society meeting, this is clearly an Establishment Clause violation.
) Americorps regulations specifically prohibit "Religious Activities,
) including engaging in religious instruction; conducting worship
) services; providing instruction as part of a Program that includes
) mandatory religious instruction or worship; constructing or operating
) facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship; maintaining
) facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction
) or worship; or engaging in any form of religious proselytization. "
Walden: No grey or fuzzy areas here. Black and White in my books.
Has anyone contacted Americorps for a response? It does not look like an
Anthro-inspired group. Maybe they were duped.
Sound familiar?
Mirriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary
Main Entry: an…thro…pos…o…phy
Pronunciation: "an(t)-thr&-'p”-s&-fE
Function: noun
Date: 1916
: a 20th century religious system growing out of theosophy and centering on
human development
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:38:27 -0500
From: "Nicole Foss" (nmfoss hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C28032.C6185A00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Nicole: Thanks for your help. They definitely do call it the Tobias
Class at our school though. I seem to recall seeing an advertisement
for Tobias curative education in an edition of a magazine that the
school periodically sends home. I can't remember the details
unfortunately. If I see it again, I'll post the information. They may
have different names for things up here in the Great White North. :-).
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Dugan
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:22 PM
To: waldorf-critics topica.com
Subject: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
Nicole Foss, you wrote,
)Can anyone tell me what constitutes special needs education in a
)Waldorf School? My eldest daughter spends time in the Tobias class
)when her classmates have music and languages because she's partially
)hearing, but they don't seem to do anything to help her with her
)difficulties. She does a lot of craft work, which she enjoys, but
)doesn't get any help with spelling or grammar. I'm starting to worry
)that she'll fail everything when she gets to high school because she
)can't write, and yet the school advertises itself as having a
)"strong remedial program".
Aha, I think "Tobias" is "Tomatis."
The Autumn issue of *Lilipoh*, the Anthroposophical medicine magazine
for consumers (Waldorf parents), has an obituary by Dr. Andrew Franck
PhD for Dr. Alfred Tomatis, "the noted French physician who
single-handedly recast the physiology, psychology and spiritual
significance of hearing and listening in the 20th century." That's
rather high praise, wonder why the Nobel committee hasn't heard of
him... Followers of Tomatis have a web site at:
http://www.tomatis.com
Tomatis claims their therapy helps with:
Attention Deficit Disorders (ADD)
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorders (ADHD)
Learning delays
Autism
Dyslexia
Balance and Coordination Problems
Sensory integration and motor skill difficulties
Asperger's Syndrome
Pervasive Development Disorder (PDD)
Down's Syndrome
It doesn't, however, shine shoes. The site has all the signs of
quackery. The research quoted is very thin. Tomatis is promoted by
Andrew Franck, director of The Healing Arts Center in Woodstock, NY,
http://www.healingartsonline.com
The Center offers "listening/sound therapy," though oddly he doesn't
mention the name Tomatis; the Tomatis site lists the Healing Arts as
a Tomatis Center. There are twelve licensed centers in the U.S.
-Dan Dugan
FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:44:09 -0500
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Camphill sucking on government grants
)Walden: No grey or fuzzy areas here. Black and White in my books.
)Has anyone contacted Americorps for a response? It does not look like an
)Anthro-inspired group.
No, definitely not, they're a public service thing for young people, you
work for a year on a stipend, sort of an at-home Peace Corps. Absolutely
should not be funneling money to anthroposophy!
Diana
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 22:36:29 +0000
From: Klaudia (klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com)
Subject: Tobias Class
Nicole Foss wrote:
They may have different names for things up here in the Great White
North. :-).
Klaudia:
There are Tobias Classes at least in Ottawa and Toronto.
End of message is just Quotes:
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.waldorfworld.net/somerset/programs.htm
THE TOBIAS CLASS
The Tobias Class is for those students experiencing emotional distress
or physical illness. The Tobias Class asks assistance from the medical
profession. School physicians prescribe therapies and medical remedies
to support the child's ailing constitution. Health is seen as the
priority and the academic program is adjusted and adapted to meet the
child's physical and emotional needs. We strive to integrate the Tobias
student into the Christopher Class and beyond.
http://www.waldorf.cyberus.ca/
For those children needing remedial and special care, a new programme
--the Tobias Class--has been inaugurated.This class will run parallel
with regular classes but will take into greater consideration the needs
of the children attending so that they will find success in the work
they do and progress at a rate with which they are comfortable.Ý
Applications now being accepted.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:06:33 -0500
From: "lubert das" (jfk3 sprint.ca)
Subject: Re: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
) Nicole Foss, you wrote,
)
) )Can anyone tell me what constitutes special needs education in a
) )Waldorf School? My eldest daughter spends time in the Tobias class
) )when her classmates have music and languages because she's partially
) )hearing, but they don't seem to do anything to help her with her
) )difficulties. She does a lot of craft work, which she enjoys, but
) )doesn't get any help with spelling or grammar. I'm starting to worry
) )that she'll fail everything when she gets to high school because she
) )can't write, and yet the school advertises itself as having a
) )"strong remedial program".
)
Dan surmised:
) Aha, I think "Tobias" is "Tomatis."
Lubert:
Possible, Dan, but I think they may have the Old Testament (Apocrypha)
story of Tobias and the Angel ---it IS one of their favorites (smells like
Parzival, alchemy, etc...).
http://www.mnemosyne.org/template_tobias_uk_0.html
http://www.kb.nl/kb/manuscripts/highlights/71PQTU_uk.html
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/KjvTobi.html
Training center to staff the nothern quackeries?:
http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Medicine/GA027_pre4.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:41:06 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: Camphill sucking on government grants
) ) Americorps regulations specifically prohibit "Religious Activities,
)) including engaging in religious instruction; conducting worship
)) services; providing instruction as part of a Program that includes
)) mandatory religious instruction or worship; constructing or operating
)) facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship; maintaining
)) facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction
)) or worship; or engaging in any form of religious proselytization. "
)
)Walden: No grey or fuzzy areas here. Black and White in my books.
)Has anyone contacted Americorps for a response? It does not look like an
)Anthro-inspired group. Maybe they were duped.
)Sound familiar?
I've written asking where to direct my complaint.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:41:35 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: Tomatis [was Re: special needs education]
Klaudia, Lubert Das, thank you for the links! I've added several new
terms to my glossary: Tobias Class, Christopher Class, and Parsival
Program.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:02:48 -0800
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: special needs education
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Nicole: I find it strange and disturbing that they consider it
threatening for people to take notes in meetings. Now that you
mention it, I have noticed that there are never any minutes taken at
community meetings. They frequently say one thing, do another and
then deny that they ever said what people heard. Without minutes,
it's hard to pin them down to anything. I suppose that must also be
why they hate having more than one or two parents at a time in a
meeting that might be contentious, so that the number of
corroborating opinions can be minimized (divide and rule).
W: Before the most important meeting I ever attended at our old
Waldorf school (a serious matter involving a teacher, myself and a
group of children) I asked and was assured that minutes would be
taken. Also, another parent at the school and (a non-Anthro *real*
facilitator) had offered to be at the meeting and was told they would
let him know the time and date. The meeting happened with no minutes
and no non-anthro facilitator (he was stunned that he had not only
been snubbed but that they had not even contacted him to say they had
changed their minds). I watched a teacher taking notes during the
meeting. The next day I asked for a copy of those minutes and was
told they had not been taken - an oversight on their part.... This
*meeting* capped some of the strangest few weeks of my life. I woke
up. So did most other families in that class and other families in
the school. Most of us left the school then. If it looks, feels and
behaves like a cult....
-Walden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:07:20 +1030
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more - was
Re: Waldorf Sun worship
) ) Sharon: Blowing the dust off Vreede's book so that we can all learn a tad
) ) more about the Sun that Waldorf pupils are made to worship each morning,
) ) at their mystery school, often without parental sanction.
At 29-10-02 11:18 PM Tuesday, Walden wrote:
)Thanks for these insightful tidbits, Sharon. This one is *one* of my BIG
)issues with Waldorf - for two reasons:
)(snip)
)So - they MUST share this information BEFORE we put our kids in
)the school. "Each day begins with a prayer to the SUN because the SUN is
)very important in Anthroposophy...."
)
)2) It must be made abundantly clear how the SUN and the stars and the
)planets and Atlantis. etc. but especially the SUN are so very important in
)the eyes of the Anthros and that is why our children must pray to the SUN
)each day. Had we known about this SUN worship and our children's part in
)the daily prayer we would have been prompted to dig deeper and may well have
)avoided the school in the first place.
I'm with you here, but as I'm coming from a rather different position than
many parents, with regard to the religious aspect, I'd also like them to
spell out that the SUN worship of Waldorf is also CHRIST-worship *as they
understand it*. I think that this would also be important to people in
Sharon's position - an interest in the sun can simply reflect a high value
placed on the nature world as a manifestation of reality, while the
specific mention of a religious figure is inarguably religious on its face,
without requiring a parent to understand Steiner's meaning or motivation
behind the reference.
I think it's very important to recognize this, because of the way that this
selective highlighting of aspects of the belief system is used to
deceptively market the schools as being compatible with ANY parent's
personal belief system, highlighting the Christian aspects to Christians,
the pagan aspects to pagans, the spiritual aspects to followers of various
new age belief systems, etc.:
regardless of what you believe, unless you are an Anthroposophist
yourself, Waldorf has aspects to offend against your beliefs.
I know many parents wouldn't be bothered by the Christian elements present
in Waldorf, but find the pagan elements disturbing. For me, I don't think
religion belongs in school, whether it's my religion or anyone else's (and
I spelled that out when interviewing the school representatives); HOWEVER,
I also specifically did not want for my child to be educated in a context
with JudeoChristian content or focus.
I spelled this out to the school's representatives, pointing out that I was
quite unhappy with the fact that my daughter's 6 week stint in public
school (she was pulled out for medical reasons - the chemical exposure
involved in attendance made her ill, and gave us migraine headaches each
time we went onto the school campus to pick her up or drop her off) she was
introduced to the Santa myth, and required to participate in activities
related to this and other elements of the Christmas traditions - just in
time to feel different and excluded by the fact that we don't celebrate
Christmas (a fact highlighted by the fact that here in the Southern
Hemisphere, we celebrate our most closely-related holiday (Yule) 6 months
before/after Christmas, which in turn falls a few days off from our Summer
Solstice).
As long as they do not cause a parent to object to the non-religious
curriculum elements, the religious beliefs of a child's home, parents, or
self, should NOT be relevant to their education in a school that does not
openly admit itself to be religious.
Likewise, no child should be forced to attend a religious school against
the wishes of their family. At least with the private Waldorf/Steiner
schools, this only happens in cases of divided custody; by infiltrating
the public school system, Waldorf is attempting to force this
religion-centered education down the throats of every child in a given
district.
As for the claim that it NOT religion-centered, would someone please tell
me how any non-religious school could begin each day with a religious
invocation making specific mention of an historically-questionable
individual after whom a globe-spanning religion was named? Why, if the
school is not religious, are there omnipresent references to "God", to
various "Saints", particularly "Saint Michael", to whom the children are
required to dedicate themselves, head hand and heart?? When I was a
school-child, I had my own hagiography, and would have ridiculed anyone who
tried to claim that such a dictionary of Saints was a non-religious item -
I had it because at the time I was attending an Episcopal school, and the
religious beliefs of that Christian school were represented in part by
those Saints. If Saints, then, are central to the religious beliefs of an
openly religious school, how can a school which invokes and references them
at every turn NOT be religious??
I want to handle my own children's education in comparative religion, to
ensure that they understand the nature, value, purpose, and equivalency of
myth and myth cycles from ALL of humanity's many cultures, not viewing one
set as somehow different from the others. Myth is about representing a
focal aspect of truth, not about representing it with photographic accuracy
in its every detail; like a pencil sketch, showing only the lines on which
the artist's eye was focusing, attracting the viewer's attention to the
details which the artist saw as important to conveying their intent.
I do not want my child taught any form of myth as history, science, or
other factual information. Neither Homer Simpson nor Zeus is an accurate
detailed representation of anything real; they are useful only in
entertaining us or teaching us the power of stereotypes, which in turn
comes from their accuracy in reflecting that small aspect of reality being
represented. Real people, and real history, requires a more in-depth
approach to understanding the odd mish-mash of motivations within any human
being, they cannot simply be classified as "adolescent", "spiritually
laggard", or "choleric".
If you are considering Waldorf Education for your child(ren), you need to
know that they will be taught a curriculum centered around the combination
of religious beliefs that are found in Anthroposophy - Christian, old
Germanic pagan, Zoroastrian, Hindu, etc.
If you are Christian, you need to know that there are pagan elements
throughout the school, beginning with nature altars in the kindy (rather
pretty ones, actually...). You should know that Steiner believed in a
cycle of reincarnation, rather than the more common Christian model of life
followed by death followed by an afterlife in Heaven, Hell, or possibly
Purgatory.
If you are pagan, you need to know that your child will be saying daily
invocations to a Christ-figure, and required to celebrate festivals
oriented around Christian Saints, with particular focus on Saint
Michael. You also need to know that Steiner's vaunted acceptance of your
beliefs was based on the fact that he considered you to be Christian and
just not know it, and that this will be manifested in the way that the
anthroposophically-trained Waldorf teachers will interact with you and your
child.
If you are an atheist, you need to know that your child's education will
REVOLVE around the myth cycles of various cultures, and that those myths
will not be clearly designated as non-factual information, but will instead
be inseparable from the other aspects of your child's education, in areas
ranging from history and culture to geography and biology.
Regardless of your beliefs, you need to know that unlike the normal
classroom environment (in which your children may be taught by teachers of
many different beliefs, without ever learning what those beliefs are in
most cases, because they will never come up), in Waldorf, any apparent
diversity of belief will be largely negated by the fact that the one belief
they are ALL required to hold in common is Anthroposophy.
This is an inevitable result of the fact that ALL Waldorf-trained teachers
are trained in a college which spends no time on the material to be taught,
but instead spends all two years focusing on an understanding of
Anthroposophy and its implications and demands of every aspect of child
development and the educational process (all in complete opposition to
decades of research, and focused on discouraging children from thinking,
recognizing or voicing their feelings, or bonding to their parent, a bond
which is to be replaced by the "priest-like" bond with the teacher), all
taught in a strictly-controlled, ascetic, nearly-monastic environment,
where the teachers are required to undergo intensive psychological
counseling oriented around a reincarnationist autobiography of the multiple
incarnations of their spirit.
As a result of the teaching methods used, the material taught, and the
intensive training and indoctrination of the teachers in the doctrine of
Steiner, the teachers' beliefs will pervade the school and the educational
process, as well as all of the subjects taught.
Parents WILL be "requested" to comply with school regulations in aspects of
their home life, and may be subject to in-home inspection to find out how
closely they are following the school's requirements.
When we enrolled our daughter in Waldorf, one of the points that raised our
concern (until eventually we came to add our voices to those of the critics
here) was the fact that we were *required*, as a part of the enrollment
process, to sign contracts saying that we would abide by the school's
restrictive policies *in our home life*, which included things like
restricting our child's access to ALL forms of television programming,
including the educational TV which is our primary viewing material, and
denying her access to the computers she'd been using since she was barely a
toddler (she's quite the little graphic artist by now - she LOVES paint
"games"). As explained here, those restrictions are based in the
Anthroposophical belief that electronic devices are possessed by the demon
Ahriman (I kid you not), who will in turn possess the person who uses
them. This is a religiously-based control by the school of the entire
family's home life, a degree of influence that would surprise those who see
religions as a matter of personal choice, and not as a means of controlling
the actions of others.
You should also know that your child will be medically evaluated (even for
first aid, and especially if you agree to take your child to see the
Anthroposophical doctors who often practise ON the school campus) in
accordance with these religious beliefs, and you may be asked to have them
treated by methods entirely based in those beliefs - something I can assure
you that you will NOT find in the day to day classroom life of an Episcopal
school.
Those religious beliefs will likewise supersede common sense when it comes
to meeting your child's basic needs, with regards to things like ensuring
their physical safety. Once again, the Episcopal school does not rely on
angels to supervise their playgrounds; when our child was repeatedly
injured, we found out that the Waldorf schools do, believing it wrong to
intervene in a child's "karma" to protect them, especially since each child
is believed to have an angel to protect them when it's necessary. Lack of
protection is seen as proof that the protection wasn't necessary, and the
injury was the child's karma. If we are concerned, we are told to "pray to
the children's angels to protect them" - answer that by saying "I thought
that was our job", and you are likely to be met with disapproving silent
glares, as I was, as for that matter was the teacher's assistant who let
that slip in front of a parent who did not subscribe to the beliefs on
which the school is based in its every detail.
)I have nothing against starting the day with a poem to help the kids
)settle down and feel the team spirit of the class, etc.
Personally, I think even "Rah, rah, rah, sis boom bah, YAY TEAM!" sounds
like a better idea than bringing religion into the classroom, where it
doesn't belong.
)I DO have a problem with this particular prayer be passed off
)as a "verse" with the meaning hidden from unsuspecting, well intentioned,
)trusting parents. I mean - really - who would think that a *school* do
)something like this? It is strange, immoral and simply wrong.
)-Walden
It might help in understanding this, to remember that it was not until June
the 17th, year of 1963, that the US Supreme Court made its historical
decree that prayer and Bible reading were no longer to be allowed or used
in the public schools. Prior to that, the Bible was often used to teach
reading, and the Pledge of Allegiance itself, said every morning in US
schools, made reference to God. (Now what you get, if it's recited at all,
is a weird hitch, where some say "under God", others omit it but pause, and
others simply keep going "indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all".)
Dare we to hope that the Waldorf school will lag no more than 40 years
behind in recognizing that to include these things is to make the schools
into a religious recruiting ground, which is now illegal (in the US public
schools, at least), under that very law? And, dare we to hope that they
will recognize that the reason for that fact is that it is an undue amount
of control to exert over others, particularly without the consent of their
parents, to teach them religion and an understanding of the world based in
that religious belief, when one is responsible for teaching them the most
essential information about the nature of the world in which they will have
to function for the remainder of their life?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:37:49 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more -
Sharon: Thanks again for a great post, you sure know how to wrap up the
issues.
on 10/30/02 6:37 PM, Willow Firesong at
willow.firesong creative-interweb.com wrote:
) If you are an atheist, you need to know that your child's education will
) REVOLVE around the myth cycles of various cultures,
Sharon: ...that Steiner included in his Anthroposophical pantheon. Children
will be passed through the cycles of the year as a mystery initiation. In
Waldorf schools the cycle of the year, celebrated as seasonal "festivals",
serves as a salvific Anthroposophic path of initiation leading participants
to an experience of Christ the Sun Being, and assurance that life is
everlasting. Modeled on occult beliefs stemming from Mithraic and Eleusinian
mysteries in vogue in Steiner's day, (which were not entirely historic) ,
his yearly nature cycle is designed to impart to the participant an
understanding of reincarnation - the annual round of birth, life, death and
rebirth. Uninformed parents finding themselves united in Anthroposophy will
sometimes grasp that each year the same Anthroposophic "festivals" are being
celebrated with much "reverencing". These "festivals" usually passed off as
multicultural celebrations, are rituals devised by Steiner with deep
esoteric meaning, invoking Michael and other Anthroposophic beings. For
example, each year pupils reenact the ritual of Michael slaying the dragon.
Michael is the messenger of the Sun and performs very special functions in
the celestial world. As a lesson book from our ex-school stated, "In
September Michael is near, he will help us with our fear".
) When we enrolled our daughter in Waldorf, one of the points that raised our
) concern (until eventually we came to add our voices to those of the critics
) here) was the fact that we were *required*, as a part of the enrollment
) process, to sign contracts saying that we would abide by the school's
) restrictive policies *in our home life*, which included things like
) restricting our child's access to ALL forms of television programming,
) including the educational TV which is our primary viewing material, and
) denying her access to the computers she'd been using since she was barely a
) toddler (she's quite the little graphic artist by now - she LOVES paint
) "games").
Sharon: I thought this restriction was about being selective about what
children watch. I had no idea that they meant an out and out ban, not only
on television, but slide shows, films, computers... Soon, because of peer
pressure, we were walking lock step. I studied filmmaking and the history of
film in art school! I'm crazy about documentaries and films, but there I was
going along with the program. This restriction worked as a method of
isolation, it ensured that Waldorf and Anthroposophy became your entire
world and life focus.
As you know I'm a real fan of PBS, a couple nights ago on NOVA there was an
excellent program about Galileo and his daughter. (Hope some of you saw it).
My daughter and I sat transfixed as we learned more about the age-old
conflict between science and religion, and heard the experts on Galileo
speak of the latest historic research . After the program my daughter said
to me, "Galileo is my hero". I personally feel that I'm a better person for
watching the program. The Anthro's ban on such programming is absolute
nonsense.
A child in our age who has not mastered a computer will be handicapped for
life. Bunch of rubbish to deliberately make a child disadvantaged because of
some loony religious beliefs. I'm delighted that my child is a computer wiz,
I wish I had her skills. I'm thrilled that her school places an emphasis on
teaching how to sift information critically. That is the key for living in
the information age. (End of rant (G)).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:17:06 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Goetheanum
Sharon: As promised, more from Vreede about the cosmic orientation of the
Goetheanum, and the cosmic timing of the laying of the foundation stone for
the Anthro's mystical temple and world headquarters. (Traditionally, stone-
laying is a very important event for occult/Masonic believers). When
Anthroposophists get excited about Steiner's "organic architecture", know
that there is a religious subtext. Steiner has written his own script of the
stars. His stars are the outer expression of the gods and his new stars the
"remaining expression of the deeds of the gods". They are for
Anthroposophists, the manifestation of spiritual being's activity. We know
that Michael is a "Mercury Spirit", and we know who lives on the threefold
Sun....
Vreede: "Let us proceed from the purely outer constellation that is
mentioned: Mercury in Libra. If we consult an ephemeris for September 20,
1913, we find that on the same day toward eleven o'clock in the morning the
planet Mercury had passed over the celestial equator in its descent, so that
in the evening it still stood at one degree of the sign of Libra. (We are
not concerned here with the astronomical Mercury, the little red planet that
is always near to the Sun, and not with Venus who in common usage is called
"the evening star". Also here we are talking about the sign of Libra, not
the constellation Libra...
Not far from it stood the Sun, with which shortly before it had been in
conjunction. As a result of this conjunction Mercury passed over from the
west side of the Sun as morning star to the east side and became the evening
star. It was invisible to the naked eye until it was three and one-half
degrees from the Sun. Now since in Dornach the Sun on September 20 sets at
about six-thirty. (Mid-European time), Mercury was actually setting directly
on the horizon at the very moment when the laying of the foundation stone
took place. Since, however it had shortly before crossed the equator, it
stood in the autumnal point", the autumn equinox, which the Sun would not
reach until September 23. The equator, however, meets the horizon at each
specific place exactly in the east and west. The east-west line always
designates the intersection points of the celestial equator and the horizon.
Consequently, relative to the building, Mercury was standing exactly in the
west, that is, it was lying directly in line with the major axis of our very
accurately oriented Goetheanum, passing at the same time over the horizon,
with the revolution of the earth, and over the equator through its own
descending motion.
What we can thus discover from a purely astronomical point of view must
become for us a symbol and a sign, as does the foundation stone itself in
the consecration ceremony"
(p 121-122. Sept. 1928 Elizabeth Vreede. Anthroposophy and Astrology, the
Astronomical Letters of Elizabeth Vreede. Anthroposophic Press. 2001)
Sharon: It's interesting to know that Steiner distanced himself from
"regular" astrology, developing his own version. Believers wish to supplant
science with Steiner's "science", that is the goal clearly spelled out in
Vreede's book. On and on it goes.....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:21:18 +0000
From: DW's Mom (qrejy hotmail.com)
Subject: RE: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more -
mysplum wrote:
) Sharon: I thought this restriction was about being selective about what
) children watch. I had no idea that they meant an out and out ban, not
) only
) on television, but slide shows, films, computers... Soon, because of
) peer
) pressure, we were walking lock step. I studied filmmaking and the
) history of
) film in art school! I'm crazy about documentaries and films, but there I
) was
) going along with the program. This restriction worked as a method of
) isolation, it ensured that Waldorf and Anthroposophy became your entire
) world and life focus.
DW's Mom:
I was raised a Jehovah's Witness from age two to age 14. JW is
absolutely a cult, and I see exactly the same restrictions within the
"Waldorf Community" that I saw in the JW community. Isolation is a key
element, and JWs tell their people to avoid TV, radio, and even not to
have ANY friends that are not JWs because they are a bad, demonic
influence. Waldorf is a cult, bottom line, and I don't want my son
being a part of it.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 06:11:16 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Goetheanum
Sharon: Here's a fascinating blurb from John Fletcher's "Art Inspired by
Rudolf Steiner". He is discussing the first Goetheanum which burnt down.
Note the power the architecture of Steiner's temple had on a person - it
could supposedly preform the future body which will resemble the
architecture of the first Goetheanum! (G) For those of you who are not
familiar with the first Goetheanum, it looked sort of like two German
helmets placed side by side.
Fletcher: "Disscussing the main aspects of the first Goetheanum,
particularly the architecture, H.S. Chase cites Rudolf Steiner's saying that
the forms and proportions preform our future bodies. In Occult Signs and
symbols this is repeated. "Those who absorbed the forces of the forms of
these buildings into their souls show the expression of their inner soul
configurations in their countenance..."
H.S. Chase tells us that for years he had pondered on how he could
understand the forms and proportions of the Goetheanum in this aspect of
preforming the body. He then quotes Carlo Pietzner who had pointed out that
the seventh apocalyptic seal embodies this same image of a transformed human
body. The seal can be superimposed on the plan of the first Goetheanum, with
the chalice and dove placed to the west (corresponding directly with the
images in the red window ) and the crystal cube in the east, centered on the
small cupola" (39. Fletcher John. Art Inspired by Rudolf Steiner. Mercury
Arts Publications, 1987).
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 862
-- Topica Digest --
Re: special needs education
By mysplum earthlink.net
special needs education
By mysplum earthlink.net
Deaf
By klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com
RE: special needs education
By qrejy hotmail.com
RE: Deaf
By qrejy hotmail.com
"I" of animals and plants
By klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com
RE: "I" of animals and plants, Lecture
By klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com
Re: Charlie...?
By charlie morrison5.fsnet.co.uk
shifting the blame to the victim : was Re: Deaf
By BarleySinger creative-interweb.com
Re: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more -
By BarleySinger creative-interweb.com
Admin: web counter 98,954
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:01:11 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: special needs education
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on 10/27/02 2:48 PM, Nicole Foss at nmfoss hotmail.com wrote:
I'd love to know more about Steiner's warped opinions on these subjects in
order to understand how my children's school may be judging them (I have one
partially hearing child, one with asthma and one who's left-handed).
Sharon: I haven't found anything yet on hearing problems from Steiner, but
you should know that too much sex and sensual desire in past life will get
you pneumonia. (G). Sins in past life are punished by diseases in present
life. (Obviously hearing difficulty is not a disease). Selfishness will get
you malaria in your next life. Mentions "payback"...
http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/ManfKarma/ManKar_index.html
"Manifestations of Karma" is on line. Quoting from around last 2 pages of
lecture 4 (sorry, can't see page numbers):
Steiner: "Errors resulting from devotion to Ahriman develop into forces of
disease which affect man through his etheric body. Faults which were the
object of a moral judgement between birth and death develop into causes of
disease which work more from the astral body.
From this we see how, in fact, our errors from the ahrimanic forces within
us, including such voluntary errors as lies, etc., develop into causes of
disease, if we do not merely consider the one incarnation, but observe the
effect of one incarnation on the next. We see also how the luciferic
influences in the same way become the causes of disease, and we may in fact
say, åour errors do not go unpunished. We bear the stamp of our errors in
our next incarnation.¼ But we do this from a higher reason than that of our
ordinary consciousness ã from a consciousness which during the period
between death and a new birth directs us to make ourselves so strong that we
shall no longer be exposed to these temptations. Thus in our life, disease
even plays the part of a great teacher. If we study illnesses in this way we
shall see unmistakably that an illness is a manifestation of either
luciferic or ahrimanic influences. When these things are understood by those
who under the guidance of Spiritual Science wish to become physicians, the
influence of these healers on the human organism will be infinitely more
profound than it can be today.
We can examine certain forms of disease from this standpoint. Let us take
pneumonia for example; it is a karmic effect which follows when during his
life in kamaloca the person in question looks back to a character which had
within it the tendency towards sexual excess, and a desire to live a sensual
life.
------
"Let us take another striking instance, and so that we may perceive the
connection, we will purposely take exactly the opposite case. During the
kamaloca period, a person sees that he has acted from too strong a feeling
of self. He sees that he must be more temperate as regards this feeling and
that he must subdue it. So he will seek an opportunity whereby in the next
incarnation his threefold organism will so condition him that his
Ego-consciousness, however much it strives, will find no limitations, and he
will be led to the unfathomable and to absurdity. These opportunities come
to him when karma brings him malaria".
Here you have a case of disease brought about by karma which explains that
fundamentally man is led by a higher kind of reason than he perceives with
his ordinary consciousness to circumstances which in the course of his karma
are favourable to his development. If we bear in mind what has just been
said, we shall find it much easier to understand the epidemic nature of
diseases. We could bring forward many different examples showing how,
because of his experience in the kamaloca period, a man actually seeks for
the opportunity to get a certain illness, in order that by overcoming it and
by developing the self-healing forces, he may gain strength and power which
will lead him upward on the path of evolution".
-------
"Now let us suppose a case in which a person overcomes a disease, develops
the healing forces, and then is confronted with a life which exacts from him
a degree of perfection he has not yet gained. He would, indeed, gain
something through the conquered disease, but it is, however, impossible ã
because the rest of his karma does not admit it ã with the little he has
gained to assist others. Then it comes about that his deeper
subconsciousness says: ã åHere you have no opportunity of receiving the full
force of what you really ought to have. You had to go into this incarnation
to gain the degree of perfection which you can only attain in the physical
body by overcoming the disease. That you had to acquire; but you cannot
develop it further. You have now to go into conditions in which your
physical body and the other forces do not disturb you, where you can freely
work out what you have gained through the illness.¼ Such an individual seeks
for death so as to use further, between death and another birth, what he
cannot use in life. Such a soul goes through the phase between death and
re-birth in order to construct an organisation with the stronger forces it
has gained by overcoming disease. In this way through the presence of an
illness, a payment on account, as it were, may be made, and the payment is
completed after passing through death.
When we consider the matter in this way we shall say: It undoubtedly seems
to be founded on karma that one illness ends in being cured and another
terminates in death. If we see illnesses terminated in this way, we shall
obtain through karma, from a higher standpoint a kind of reconciliation, a
profound reconciliation with life; for we shall know that it lies within the
law of karma that ã even if an illness terminates in death ã man progresses,
and that even in such a case the illness has the object of bringing the
person higher. Now no one must draw from this the conclusion that we ought
to wish that death should take place in certain cases of illness. No one may
say this, because the decision regarding what ought to happen, whether
healing or otherwise, belongs to a higher power of judgement than the one
included in our ordinary consciousness. In the world which lies between
birth and death, and with our ordinary consciousness, we must humbly let
such questions stand over. With our higher consciousness we may, however,
even take the standpoint that death is the gift of the higher spiritual
powers".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:21:24 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: special needs education
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Sharon: Anthroposophy claims to heal children by using certain colors,
vibrating the sounds of certain letters, tracing certain magic sigils,
throwing copper wands and balancing them on heads, etc, etc, etc.... Here is
some stuff about form drawing and the power it has to transform a child's
undesirable habits... I wonder if "very special" form drawing would be
employed to cure difficulties like hearing loss?
Poplawski: "In the case of children, undesirable tendencies and habits are
not yet as firmly fixed. Form drawing can change or remove undesirable
habits that are exaggerated manifestations of temperament - such as a
choleric child's temper tantrums or a melancholic child's pronounced social
withdrawal. In the first training for Waldorf teachers (recorded in The
Practical Course for Teachers), Rudolf Steiner demonstrated the use of
colors and forms to help specific children balance exaggerated qualities
that are due to their inherent temperaments. He gave examples of how a child
can benefit from a particular form drawing exercise. While choosing general
patterns to be learned by the entire class, the teacher can thus approach
individual students with special assignments to help them work through
personality blocks that are hampering their progress. Such an approach to
addressing a child's special needs can be quite effective in heading off
certain tendencies before they become too extreme and too fixed".
"Also, it is possible to therapeutically influence an undesirable quality in
a person's character by altering the way in which he or she writes. Habitual
patterns in a person's handwriting are connected with emotional habits, and,
by changing the one, the other can - though not without difficulty - also be
made to change. This so-called "handwriting therapy" is well practiced in
Europe".
"Form drawing involves another kind of rhythmical working that causes
mathematical principles to be experienced truths and not merely abstractions
that need be memorized".
"Many cultures of the world have used and still do use repeated images and
patterns - some variant of the wave, spiral, circle, or other archetypal
form - to ornament jewelry, pottery, clothing, and buildings. These forms
usually have religious or spiritual meaning".
(Thomas Poplawski, Renewal 7:2 pp 26-28).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:47:25 +0000
From: Klaudia (klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com)
Subject: Deaf
mysplum wrote:
) Sharon: I haven't found anything yet on hearing problems from Steiner,
) but...
Klaudia:
Me either (yet), but here is a link to California:
http://www.trilliumdeafprogram.org/
Anthros are taking good care of geaf children. Nice bio-dynamic
surrounding, steiner-dolls and so on.
Please read here how nice method Waldorf is. How some nasty persons can
critizise this kind of education?
Quote from some of trillium-deaf-program page:
"Waldorf Education is the fastest growing form of private education. Now
it is moving into the public system as well through the Charter School
movement. Why? Because it is beautiful! And because it works! Waldorf
education teaches through head, heart and hands using drama,
storytelling, art and movement. Fun? You bet! And Waldorf graduates are
getting into the best colleges with SAT scores well above the national
average! Why shouldn't Deaf children have access to this innovative
educational philosophy?
Part of Trillium's dream is to access Waldorf Education for the Deaf
Community, Deaf children and Deaf educators. We have named this impulse
the Deaf Community Waldorf School. For the last three years Trillium has
been instrumental in the development of a bilingual-bicultural Waldorf
mixed age integrated kindergarten in Sebastopol, California under the
directorship of Victoria Lester. "
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:38:39 +0000
From: DW's Mom (qrejy hotmail.com)
Subject: RE: special needs education
mysplum wrote:
) Steiner: "Errors resulting from devotion to Ahriman develop into forces
) of
) disease which affect man through his etheric body. Faults which were the
) object of a moral judgement between birth and death develop into causes
) of
) disease which work more from the astral body.
Being that Steiner obviously believed humans to be greatly superior to
animals, a higher level being you might say, how would he explain
disease and illness in animals? How can they get illness due to karma
if all they are is a shedding of our negative or outgrown ways of being,
and not beings in their own right?
Somebody please explain this bizarre reasoning.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:46:39 +0000
From: DW's Mom (qrejy hotmail.com)
Subject: RE: Deaf
Klaudia wrote:
) Klaudia:
) Me either (yet), but here is a link to California:
) http://www.trilliumdeafprogram.org/
)
) Anthros are taking good care of geaf children. Nice bio-dynamic
) surrounding, steiner-dolls and so on.
)
) Please read here how nice method Waldorf is. How some nasty persons can
) critizise this kind of education?
)
) Quote from some of trillium-deaf-program page:
)
) "Waldorf Education is the fastest growing form of private education. Now
)
) it is moving into the public system as well through the Charter School
) movement. Why? Because it is beautiful! And because it works! Waldorf
) education teaches through head, heart and hands using drama,
) storytelling, art and movement. Fun? You bet! And Waldorf graduates are
) getting into the best colleges with SAT scores well above the national
) average! Why shouldn't Deaf children have access to this innovative
) educational philosophy?
)
) Part of Trillium's dream is to access Waldorf Education for the Deaf
) Community, Deaf children and Deaf educators. We have named this impulse
) the Deaf Community Waldorf School. For the last three years Trillium has
)
) been instrumental in the development of a bilingual-bicultural Waldorf
) mixed age integrated kindergarten in Sebastopol, California under the
) directorship of Victoria Lester. "
)
)
)
DW's Mom:
Could it be that deaf children, because they cannot generally
communicate verbally, could be seen as a gateway to some sort of
Atlantean/Lemurian communication rennaissance? "Telepathic
communication" and communication using symbols and gestures are two big
ideas related to the new-age Atlantis.
Just an idea that popped into my head.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:23:46 +0000
From: Klaudia (klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com)
Subject: "I" of animals and plants
DW's Mom wrote:
)
) Being that Steiner obviously believed humans to be greatly superior to
) animals, a higher level being you might say, how would he explain
) disease and illness in animals? How can they get illness due to karma
) if all they are is a shedding of our negative or outgrown ways of being,
)
) and not beings in their own right?
) Somebody please explain this bizarre reasoning.
)
Individual animals don't have "I" ("Ich" in German). Each species of
animals has only one common "I". All wolves around world has one "I".
Karmic reasons (if there are any) are based on this. Maybe some wolf has
acted badly in Alaska, so some other wolf must get illness in norhern
Norway (this is just my guess).
All species of plants have one "I", so all trees, daisies and all
living carrots have same common "I".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:45:59 +0000
From: Klaudia (klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com)
Subject: RE: "I" of animals and plants, Lecture
Klaudia wrote:
) Individual animals don't have "I" ("Ich" in German). Each species of
) animals has only one common "I". All wolves around world has one "I".
) Karmic reasons (if there are any) are based on this. Maybe some wolf has
)
) acted badly in Alaska, so some other wolf must get illness in norhern
) Norway (this is just my guess).
) All species of plants have one "I", so all trees, daisies and all
) living carrots have same common "I".
)
Klaudia continues:
I found one Steiner's lecture of animals, but I don't have now time to
read it (Hopefully someone reads it and writes main ideas of lecture to
this forum):
http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/Places/Hamburg/19100517p01.html
Manifestations of Karma
LECTURE 2
KARMA AND THE ANIMAL KINGDOM
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 01:47:31 -0000
From: "Charlie Morrison" (charlie morrison5.fsnet.co.uk)
Subject: Re: Charlie...?
Charlie:
Hi Walden, I'm fine, thanks for asking.
While I don't mind responding to your request, I'm not sure how much you
will get out of it. I know that there are plenty of anthros out there who
are more capable of answering your questions than I am.
I feel fortunate in having come to Steiner of my own free will. I picked up
a few of his basic books in the early '70's. It was at a time when I was
trying to make sense of the world and I was working my way through the
philosophy and religious sections of my local library. If I had come across
anthroposophy by way of a negative experience involving my kids education
then things would have been very different I've no doubt.
Anyway, as it was so long ago that I promised to respond, maybe you could
refresh my memory by asking me one or two specific questions and I will make
an attempt at an answer. (You might even receive it before Christmas).
warm regards,
Charlie.
----- Original Message -----
From: "walden" (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
To: (waldorf-critics topica.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:22 AM
Subject: Charlie...?
) Charlie:
) ) I'm not ignoring you Walden. I'll share my thoughts when I find the
time.
) )
) ) Warm regards,
) ) Charlie.
)
) Walden: That was over a month ago. I hope all is well with you. Just to
) clarify - I was hoping to see your thoughts in *this* incarnation (g)
) Seriously, I still would greatly appreciate any insight you might add to
) that discussion -the "true or false" thread. Even though it was some time
) ago it is very relevant to me. I feel that I have been abandoned too many
) times when I am really looking to understand. I doubt I am alone in that
) respect. Thanks for taking the time.
)
) -Walden
)
)
)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 12:41:48 +1030
From: BarleySinger (BarleySinger creative-interweb.com)
Subject: shifting the blame to the victim : was Re: Deaf
At 01-11-02 01:47 PM Friday, you wrote:
) ) Sharon: I haven't found anything yet on hearing problems from Steiner,
) ) but...
)
)
)Klaudia:
)Me either (yet), but here is a link to California:
)http://www.trilliumdeafprogram.org/
One point you are forgetting which applies to all disabilities and to all
traumatic experiences (assaults, etc) ... according to the Anthroposophy
version of Karma, all of these things are the fault of the person
experiencing them. So deafness "must" be the result of something from a
previous life. So if your kid is deaf because a really loud sound
destroyed their ability to hear...it is their fault.
If your kid has downs syndrome it is their fault (karma in action). If
they have horrible heath problems because of the local chemical plant it is
again - their fault - not the fault of the person who polluted the water
table, but the fault of the newborn, making it plain that in Anthroposophy
people are not responsible for their action to harm others...it is always
the fault of the person harmed. If your has cancer from pesticide
exposure it is again, the kids fault, not the fault of the company that
made the unsafe pesticide or the fault of the person who applied them in an
unsafe way...but the fault of the kid who did nothing to make it
happen....except according to Steiner it was a part of their Karma.
If your kid has emotional problems because they were kidnapped and molested
by some pervert, or because they witnessed some horrible crime, it is the
kids fault...something left over from a past life caused this to happen to
them.
This kind of attitude has to rub off on the kids in schools for the
disabled. Steinerism takes blaming the victim to a new level of cruelty,
and if the teachers all believe that the disabled children they teach,
deserve their disability because it is a punishment from a past life...they
will treat the children in accordance with that belief.
Steiner's version of karma completely removes peoples responsibility for
the things that they do to other people, and heaps imaginary blame onto the
victims. People from bullies to serious criminals are given free reign and
the kids are blamed for anything that happens. If your kid gets beaten up
or bullied or seriously assaulted at a Steiner school, it is their own
fault. They did something in a past life that is being worked out on the
play ground, and the teachers are forbidden from stopping it.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:29:00 +1030
From: BarleySinger (BarleySinger creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Re: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more -
At 31-10-02 08:37 AM Thursday, you wrote:
)The Anthro's ban on such programming is absolute
)nonsense.
Not if the point of the ban is the isolation that you mentioned. There are
multiple levels of answers to this question as well. Parents (at our
school) are given information on the bad effects of television on the
developing mind including a number of (highly dubious) studies. Yet as the
same time, there is another deeper belief known only to those heavily into
anthro and Steiner, in which the ban is based on the evil influences of
Ahriman on technology. I have no doubt that at a deeper level within the
organization it is also considered to be an intentional and essential
element for recruiting people into the fold, because without isolation from
other ideas, people would just laugh at the nuts and walk away. It is
standard cult methodology to cut people off from other sources of
information, and this is one of the methods used by Steiner.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:52:29 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Admin: web counter 98,954
On November 1, 2002, the PLANS web site had registered 98,954
visitors since August 12, 1996. (Visitors, not hits, repeats on the
same day are not counted. Thanks, Web-Counter: http://www.digits.com.)
We had 2533 visitors in the last 30 days, averaging 84 per day.
Hit counters give much higher but less meaningful numbers, because
they count every page and image viewed. The hits on our site in the
month of October totaled 161,360, averaging 5205 per day.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 863
-- Topica Digest --
steiner/vaccination
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Re: steiner/vaccination
By BarleySinger creative-interweb.com
encountering Steiner's racial doctrines
By pstaud hotmail.com
re: steiner and vaccination/chemical sensitivity
By momof2gals mindspring.com
Re: Charlie...?
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: Charlie...?
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more -
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Walden, Peter S, Charlie, racism & kids
By lumiere paris.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:26:07 -0500
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: steiner/vaccination
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
The language is of fault, temptation, punishment, "paying of
accounts" - all this is in the short Steiner passage Sharon quoted on
karma and its relation to illness. This is about getting malaria or
pneumonia!
Steiner:
. . . our errors do not go unpunished. . . . through the presence
of an illness, a payment on account, as it were, may be made . . .
All who keep insisting, "Yes, but that's not why I don't vaccinate;
it's got nothing to do with Steiner." Well, maybe not Steiner, but
are you sure the traditions you are drawing on don't also have hints
of this stuff, not too far from the surface? Steiner, a man of his
time, could be a great-grandfather to most of us. How many of us were
not influenced by such beliefs in childhood? We just imagine we're
too sophisticated to buy the old wine on sale in new bottles
everywhere.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 01:01:43 +1030
From: BarleySinger (BarleySinger creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Re: steiner/vaccination
--=====================_16656313==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 02-11-02 08:26 AM Saturday, you wrote:
)The language is of fault, temptation, punishment, "paying of accounts" -
)all this is in the short Steiner passage Sharon quoted on karma and its
)relation to illness. This is about getting malaria or pneumonia!
)
)Steiner:
)
). . . our errors do not go unpunished. . . . through the presence of an
)illness, a payment on account, as it were, may be made . . .
)
)
)All who keep insisting, "Yes, but that's not why I don't vaccinate; it's
)got nothing to do with Steiner."
In my case it is because my entire family has problems with chemical
sensitivity(in my wife it is life threateningly extreme) and they insist on
putting mercury, formaldehyde and benzene in stuff that they make for
injecting into babies. Frankly it really ticks me off that I have the
option of leaving my daughter with no added immunity to dangerous
organisms, or having her injected with a stew of unnecessary crap which
could easily condemn her to the kind of pain that I and my wife have to
live with every day. I do not want her to get diphtheria, but as sure as
"Steiner was a loon" I don't want her to live like this.
)Well, maybe not Steiner, but are you sure the traditions you are drawing
)on don't also have hints of this stuff, not too far from the surface?
)Steiner, a man of his time, could be a great-grandfather to most of us.
)How many of us were not influenced by such beliefs in childhood? We just
)imagine we're too sophisticated to buy the old wine on sale in new bottles
)everywhere
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:08:53 -0600
From: "Peter Staudenmaier" (pstaud hotmail.com)
Subject: encountering Steiner's racial doctrines
Charlie writes:
)I feel fortunate in having come to Steiner of my own free will. I picked up
)a few of his basic books in the early '70's. It was at a time when I was
)trying to make sense of the world and I was working my way through the
)philosophy and religious sections of my local library. If I had come across
)anthroposophy by way of a negative experience involving my kids education
)then things would have been very different I've no doubt.
Hi Charlie,
as one of your frequent interlocutors, I hope you won't mind my butting in
to your exchange with Walden. I'm not sure how to make sense of your
paragraph above. You seem to be saying that your own lack of personal
negative experience with Waldorf education accounts for your generally
positive evaluation of anthroposophical doctrines, and you seem to suggest
that critics of anthroposophy, in contrast, have not encountered Steiner of
their own free will. Without downplaying the negative experiences of many of
the former Waldorf parents on this list, I have to point out that this
hypothesis (if it is indeed what you're getting at) is in error. Since we're
talking about personal encounters with Steiner's work, let's use me as an
example: I have never had any negative experiences with Waldorf education,
and I, like you, came to Steiner of my own free will. I nevertheless have a
very different take on Steiner's teachings from yours, as we all know. I
don't think I am unique in that regard, even on this list. This suggests to
me that the reasons for our sharply divergent attitudes toward Steiner's
doctrines have to do with the substance of those doctrines themselves, not
with negative experiences or free will.
As I understood it, the thread on "true or false" revolved squarely around
such textual and doctrinal questions, not around personal experiences.
Percedol, for example, declared that Steiner's "teachings of races are
beautiful", and explicitly endorsed Steiner's notion that "savages" are
"degenerate" human beings. He then opined that Asians and South American
indigenous peoples are examples of human groups that have "regressed" or
remained stagnant, in cosmic-evolutionary terms. It seems to me that there
are two main possible responses for anthroposophists who oppose racism: you
can either deny that Steiner taught these ideas, or you can agree that he
taught them and deny that these ideas are racist. In all of the exchanges
that you and I have had on this and related issues, it has never become
clear to me which one of these responses you are trying to articulate, or
whether you perceive a third option. Thus I would like to heartily second
Walden's query to you: What do you think of the Steiner quotes that Walden
presented, and what do you think of the way these teachings are interpreted
and defended by other anthroposophists?
Thanks for your time,
Peter S.
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:29:46 -0500
From: "Lisa D. Ercolano" (momof2gals mindspring.com)
Subject: re: steiner and vaccination/chemical sensitivity
BarleySinger, you write:
In my case it is because my entire family has problems with chemical
sensitivity(in my wife it is life threateningly extreme) and they insist on
putting mercury, formaldehyde and benzene in stuff that they make for
injecting into babies ...
Lisa here: How do you know that your health problems are caused by reactions
to these chemicals you mention?
I am very interested in the subject of multiple chemical
hypersensitivity, as I spent almost six months researching the topic for a
newspaper story I wanted to do. As part of my research, I spent hours with
more than a dozen people who believed that their health problems (which
ranged from vicious headaches and roaming pain to weak muscles,
deteriorating eyesight, etc.) were caused by exposure to various
petrochemicals. I also spent hours interviewing doctors and scientists on
the subject.
I found the whole thing intriguing. Unfortunately, I was unable to get
the article in print (this was in the late 80s) because I was unable to find
a credible doctor or scientist at the time who believed that there was such
a thing as chemical hypersensitivity.
I ask, BarleySinger, not to challenge you (I did this research a long
time ago, in scientific terms!) but because I am interested. No doubt a lot
of research has been done since my attempt to write about chemical
sensitivity, and I would appreciate hearing a bit of what you know.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 20:35:20 -0800
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Charlie...?
Charlie wrote:
While I don't mind responding to your request, I'm not sure how much you
) will get out of it. I know that there are plenty of anthros out there who
) are more capable of answering your questions than I am.
Walden: That is fine. I will get out of it whatever there is to get.
Please don't worry about me (g). As for the "plenty of anthros"... send
them over! The occasional anthro inspired person arrives here and when the
questions start ... they vanish. I understand that the heat is turned up in
here from time to time - but that is when the soup tastes best. Shine that
light....
) I feel fortunate in having come to Steiner of my own free will. I picked
up
) a few of his basic books in the early '70's. It was at a time when I was
) trying to make sense of the world and I was working my way through the
) philosophy and religious sections of my local library. If I had come
across
) anthroposophy by way of a negative experience involving my kids education
) then things would have been very different I've no doubt.
Walden: Now this is interesting but sends a bit of a curveball into the
original "true or false" thread. I would be happy to explore your anthro
impulse in the 70's a little later as that *does* interest me a great deal,
as well.
) Anyway, as it was so long ago that I promised to respond, maybe you could
) refresh my memory by asking me one or two specific questions and I will
make
) an attempt at an answer.
Walden: OK... Without pasting bits of old posts I will ask one or two
specific questions as per your request. It would really help to refresh
your memory (or anyone else following this) to look at the thread "true or
false" in the archives - late August through September of this year. So...
How do you, Charlie, reconcile Steiner's racist views with spiritual
enlightenment? If, by any chance, you do not agree that his views are
racist - how do you explain the many Steiner quotes and lectures which are
clearly full of racist remarks and how can Steiner's racial ethnography not
be considered *racist*?
Those are the questions. Now if you were to ask for specific quotes of
Steiner I will oblige - see the following quotes. There are many more -
these ones I have a real hard time with. In the past I have been told that
these quotes are incorrect, poorly translated, etc. My study of
Anthroposophy, however, tells me that the quotes are very real and have
everything to do with Anthroposophy - without these lectures on race - there
is not much left. Sure, we can meditate, study the planets and really
believe that Steiner was clairvoyant - but that does not seem to be the
*impulse* behind Anthroposophy, does it?
Sorry, that is three questions now (g)
So... fire away with response and thanks for taking the time. Really.
Please read the following carefully:
"Jewry as such has long since outlived its time; it has no more
justification within the modern life of peoples, and the fact that it
continues to exist is a mistake of world history whose consequences are
unavoidable. We do not mean the forms of the Jewish religion alone, but
above all the spirit of Jewry, the Jewish way of thinking." (Steiner, GA 32,
p. 152)
"White humankind is still on the path of absorbing the spirit deeper and
deeper into its own essence. Yellow humankind is on the path of
conserving the era when the spirit will be kept away from the body, when
the spirit will only be sought outside of the human-physical
organization. But the result will have to be that the transition from
the fifth cultural epoch to the sixth cultural epoch cannot happen in
any other way than as a violent battle of white humankind against
colored humankind in myriad areas. And that which precedes these battles
between white and colored humankind will occupy world history until the
completion of the great battles between white and colored humankind.
Future events are frequently reflected in prior events. You see, we
stand before something colossal that - when we understand it through
spiritual science - we will in the future be able to recognize as a
necessary occurrence." (Rudolf Steiner, Die geistigen Hintergr¸nde des
Ersten Weltkrieges. Dornach, 1974 (GA 174b) p. 38).
STEINER (1923) "No doubt about it, the soul becomes corrupted through using
the French language...It is also possible at the present time that the
French will even ruin their own blood, the very element which has kept their
language going as a corpse. That is a terrible thing the French people are
doing to other people, the frightful cultural brutality of transplanting
black people to Europe. It affects France itself worst of all. This has an
incredibly strong effect on the blood, the race. This will substantially add
to French decadence. The French nation will be weakened as a race."
[Steiner, Rudolf. *Conferences with the Teachers of the Waldorf School in
Stuttgart 1922 to 1923: Volume Three: Being the end of the Fourth Year*.
(1923) Trans. Pauline Wehrle. Forest Row, U.K.: Steiner Schools Fellowship
Publications, 1988, pp. 87-88.]
"These blacks in Africa characteristically suck in, absorb, all
light and all heat from the cosmos. And, humans being humans, this
light and this heat from the cosmos cannot pass through the entire
body. It does not flow through the entire body, but it stops at the
skin. In this way, the complexion itself becomes black. Consequently,
a black in Africa is a human who absorbs and assimilates as much
light and heat from the cosmos as possible. As he does this, the
forces of the cosmos work throughout that human. Everywhere, he
absorbs light and heat, really everywhere. He assimilates them within
himself. There really must be something which helps him in this
assimilation. That something is mainly the cerebellum. This is why a
Negro has an especially well developed cerebellum. This is linked to
the spinal marrow; and they can assimilate all light and heat which a
human contains. As a consequence, especially the aspects which
pertain to the body and to metabolism are strongly developed in a
Negro. He has a strong sexual urge -as people call it-, strong
instincts. And as, with him, all which comes from the sun -light and
heat- really is at the skin's surface, all of his metabolism works as
if the sun itself is boiling in his inside. This causes his passions.
Within a Negro, cooking is going on all the time; and the cerebellum
kindles the fire. (...) And we, Europeans, we poor Europeans, we have
the thinking life, which resides in the head. (...) Therefore, Europe
has always been the starting point of everything which develops the
human entity in such a way that at the same time a relationship with
the outside world arises. (...)
"When Negroes go to the west, they cannot absorb as much light and
heat any more as they were used to in their Africa. (...) That is why
they turn copper red, they become Indians. That is because they are
forced to reflect a part of the light and heat. They turn shiny
copper red. They cannot keep up this copper red shining. That is why
the Indians die out in the West, they die because of their own nature
which does not get enough light and heat, they die because of the
earthly factor.(...)
"Really, it is the whites who develop the human factor within
themselves. Therefore they have to rely on themselves. When whites do
emigrate, they partly take on the characteristics of other areas, but
they die more as individuals than as a race. The white race is the
race of the future, the race that is working creatively with the
spirit."
[Steiner, March 3 1923, lecture to the workmen (GA 349 p. 67)]
"I am convinced that if we get yet another set of Negro novels and give
them to pregnant women to read, then Negroes do not have to come to Europe
to conceive mulattos; just by reading Negro novels, half-blood children
will be born in Europe" (from Steiner's "Health and Illness").
"We have seen that blood united to blood in the case of but remotely
connected species of animals, kills; blood united to blood in the case of
more closely allied species of animals does not kill. The physical organism
of man survives when strange blood comes in contact with strange blood,
[except, of course, in the case of incompatible blood types, which mutually
coagulate one another,] but clairvoyant power perishes under the influence
of this mixing of blood, or exogamy." -- Rudolf Steiner (Occult Significance
of Blood, 1906)
"The human individual belongs to a family, a nation, a race; his actions in
this world depend on his belonging to such a totality. [. . .] Indeed, in a
certain sense individuals are only the executive organs of these family
souls, racial spirits, and so forth. [. . .] Every individual gets his
tasks, in the truest sense of the word, assigned by the family soul, the
national soul, or the racial soul." (Steiner, GA 10, Dornach 1961, pp.
199-200) Toward the end of his life, Steiner again emphasized this crucial
facet of anthroposophic thought: "One can only understand history and all of
social life, including today's social life, if one pays attention to
people's racial characteristics. And one can only understand all that is
spiritual in the correct sense if one first examines how this spiritual
element operates within people precisely through the color of their skin."
Steiner, Vom Leben des Menschen und der Erde (GA 349), Dornach 1980, p. 52.
The quote is from 1923.
"But since all men in different incarnations pass through the various races,
there exists - even if it can be said against me that the European has a
lead in relation to the black and yellow race - no real disadvantage. In
such cases the truth is sometimes veiled, but you see that you with
Spiritual Science come to remarkable insights."
(Steiner, Rudolf. 1910. The Mission of Folk-Souls. Translation from the
German original, published in paperback 1974 by Redolf Steiner Verlag,
Dornach. Fourth Lecture, The Development of the Races and of the Cultures)
"Consequently the various peoples may assume the most diverse forms.
According as the eye or the ear or one of the other senses predominates, so
will the different peoples respond in this or that way to the particular
national tendency within the racial character. In consequence of this they
are faced with quite specific tasks. The particular task of the Caucasian
race is to find the way to the spirit through the senses, for this race is
oriented chiefly towards the sense-world."
(Steiner, Rudolf. 1910. The Mission of Folk-Souls. Translation from the
German original, published in paperback 1974 by Redolf Steiner Verlag,
Dornach. Sixth Lecture, The Five Main Races of Humanity)
"Thus we see that through these abnormal Spirits of Form there are five
potential centres of influence where these reflected planetary forces are
concentrated and produce in reflect what we know as the five main races of
the Earth.
Let us now look more closely into the centre which, in Lecture Four, we
situated in the interior of Africa. If we state that the Negro race was born
of the cooperation between the normal Spirits of Form and the abnormal
Spirits of Form centred in Mercury, then from an occult standpoint we are
perfectly correct in describing the Negro race as the "Mercury race".
Let us now continue along the line joining the centres or focal points from
which the individual races spread outward. We then come to Asia which is the
seat of the '"Venus race" or the Malayan race. We then move northward across
the wide expanse of Asia and we find the Mongolian race which is formed by
the Mars forces. Then we cross over into Europe and find the Europeans who
in their original racial character are "Jupiter men". If we cross the ocean
to America which is the centre where civilizations or races die, we find
there dark "Saturn's race", the original Red Indian race. The American
Indian race is the "Saturn race". Thus if you look into the matter more
closely from an occult standpoint you will become aware of the five centres
where the planetary forces are concentrated and are manifested in the
external world.
With a progressively more definite and concrete conception of this racial
distribution you will develop an inner understanding of the racial
characteristics peculiar to the peoples spread over the Earth, an
understanding of this unique cooperation of the normal and abnormal Spirits
of Form."
"It is valid for the epoch when, at a definite moment of time in the old
Atlantean evolution, the peoples began to migrate from a centre in Atlantis
and sought the particular centre where they could receive the training
appropriate to their race. "
"Now how do we look upon a member of the Ethiopian race, of the Mercury
race? We see him. as one who was originally chosen, who was predestined by
the Elohim to express the quintessence of the all-human. But from the
Mercury Centre the potent influences of the abnormal Spirits of Form
intervened and modified the form of man to such an extent that the Ethiopian
race arose. And such was the case with each individual race. "
"Now how do these Race Spirits work in and upon man? They work in a very
unique way; they permeate his vital energies, they penetrate even down into
his physical body. Now you know that the four fundamental members of man
find their impress and are reflected in corresponding parts of the physical
body: the 'I' finds its impress in the blood, the astral body in the nervous
system, the etheric or life body in the glandular system. Only the physical
body is self-sufficient; it is a reflection of its own inner being which for
the man of the present is subject to its own fixed laws.
Now those spiritual Beings who are stirring in man and determine his racial
character cannot at first work directly into his higher vehicles. They are
active first of all in these reflections of the higher vehicles in the
physical body. They cannot as yet enter directly into the physical body, but
they are active in the three other members, in the blood which is the
reflection of the 'I'; in the nervous system, the reflection of the astral
body; and in the glandular system which is the reflection of the etheric
body. The Race Spirits, the abnormal Spirits of Form, are active in these
three systems, which are part of man's organic system, but are reflections
of the higher vehicles.
Thus the physical body of man is determined from within. These various
spiritual Beings invade those members of the physical body which are the
preliminary drafts, the suggestions of the higher vehicles.
Now where, for instance, does Mercury make his influence felt? Under
Mercury, I include all the abnormal Spirits of Form to be found in Mercury.
He makes his influence felt by cooperating with others, especially in the
glandular system. He is active in the glandular (or lymphatic) system where
are manifested the forces born of that preponderance of the Mercury forces
which are present in the Ethiopian race. Everything which gives the
Ethiopian race its distinctive character sterns from the ferment of the
Mercury forces in the glandular system of this people. What transforms the
undifferentiated universal human form into the distinctive Ethiopian type
with his black pigmentation and woolly or frizzy hair is the consequence of
their activity. "
"The Semitic people are an example of a modification of collective humanity.
Jahve or Jehovah shuts Himself off from the other Elohim and invests this
people with a special character by cooperating with the Mars Spirits, in
order to bring about a special modification of his people.
You will now understand the peculiar character of the Semitic people and its
mission. In a profound occult sense the Biblical writer was able to claim
that Jahve or Jehovah had made this people his own. If you add to this the
fact that Jahve cooperated with the Mars Spirits who worked principally in
the blood, you will understand why racial continuity through the
blood-stream was of particular importance to the Semitic Hebrew people and
why Jahve describes Himself as the God who is present in the blood of the
generations, in the blood of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. When he declared
himself to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, He proclaimed that He was
present in the blood-stream of the Patriarchs. Whatsoever works in the
blood, whatsoever must be determined through the blood - the cooperation
with the Mars Spirits - that is one of the mysteries which give us a deep
insight into the wise guidance of all mankind.
The blood of mankind is thus subject to a twofold influence; two races
emerge, the Mongolian race and the Semitic race. This points to the
existence of an important polarity in mankind and we must emphasize the
immense importance of this polarity if we wish to plumb the depths of the
Folk Souls. "
"Consequently the various peoples may assume the most diverse forms.
According as the eye or the ear or one of the other senses predominates, so
will the different peoples respond in this or that way to the particular
national tendency within the racial character. In consequence of this they
are faced with quite specific tasks. The particular task of the Caucasian
race is to find the way to the spirit through the senses, for this race is
orientated chiefly towards the sense-world.
Here is disclosed something that introduces us to the deeper secrets of
occultism; it shows how, in those peoples who are subject to the Venus
forces, the initial steps in development, even in occult development, must
be concentrated on the respiratory system. Amongst the peoples living more
in the Western Hemisphere, on the other hand, the initial steps must start
from an enrichment and a spiritualization of the life of the senses. This is
experienced by those peoples inhabiting countries more towards the West in
their stages of higher cognition, in Imagination, Inspiration and Intuition,
in so far as the Jupiter Spirit originally modified the character. "
"Finally, the abnormal Spirits of Form who have their centre in Saturn work
indirectly via all the other systems into the glandular system. In the
Saturn race, therefore, in everything to which we must ascribe the Saturn
character, we must expect to find the combination of the forces leading to
the twilight of mankind, forces which set the seal upon its development and
sow the seeds of its ultimate decline. This action and its effect upon the
glandular system can be seen in the American Indian race and was the cause
of its ultimate extinction.
The Saturn influence finally works via all the other systems into the
glandular system which secretes the hardest parts of man. This slow decline
is characterized by a kind of ossification which is clearly reflected in the
external form. If you look at the pictures of the old American Indians the
process of ossification described above is evident in the decline of this
race. In a race such as this everything pertaining to the forces of the
Saturn evolution has become realized in a special manner; then Saturn
withdrew into itself, abandoned man to his bony system and thus hastened his
decline. "
The Mission of Single Folk Souls in Relation to Germanic-Nordic Mythology -
Lecture 6 -
The five main races of Mankind.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:38:15 -0800
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Charlie...?
Walden: My apologies - I forgot a few quotes from the original thread to
help refresh your memory, Charlie:
"If the blondes and blue-eyed people die out, the human race will
become increasingly dense if men do not arrive at a form of intelligence
that is independent from blondeness. In the case of fair people, less
nourishment is driven into the eyes and hair: it remains instead in the
brain and endows it with intelligence. Brown-and dark ‚haired people drive
nourishment into their eyes and hair that the fair people retain in their
brains." (Steiner, Rudolf, Health and Illness, 86)\
"[W]e are not justified in thinking that human beings were originally like
the savages of today. The savages have developed into what they now
are--with their superstitions, their magical practices and their unclean
appearance--from states originally more perfect. The only superiority we
have over them is that, while starting from the same conditions, we did not
degenerate as they did. I might therefore say: The evolution of man has
taken two paths. It is not true that the savages of today represent the
original condition of mankind. Mankind, though to begin with it looked more
animal-like, was highly civilized. ... Just as the present savages have
fallen from the level of the human beings of primeval times, so the apes are
beings who have fallen still lower."
Steiner, Rudolf. The Evolution of the Earth and Man and the Influence of the
Stars. Page 126 (1924) Trans. Gladys Hahn. Hudson, NY: Anthroposophic Press,
1987
"Darwinism has made many errors in regard to the differentiation expressed
by the races actually existing on the Earth. The higher races have not
descended from the lower races; on the contrary, the latter represent the
degeneration of the higher races which have preceded them. Suppose there are
two brothers - one of whom is handsome and intelligent, the other ugly and
dull-witted. Both proceed from the same father. What should we think of a
man who believed that the intelligent brother descends from the idiot? That
is the kind of error made by Darwinism in regard to the races."
Steiner - An Esoteric Cosmology II THE MISSION OF MANICHEISM - Lecture:
26th May, 1906 | Paris | GA0092
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:04:36 -0800
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Religion in Waldorf Schools - pagan, Christian, and more -
) Sharon: Thanks again for a great post, you sure know how to wrap up the
) issues.
Walden: Agreed! It is difficult and not always useful to respond to all
posts here but I must say how much I appreciate this list. Posts like these
are well articulated and well received. There are other members, as well,
whose posts I look forward to and enjoy... even if I do not always agree
with them.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 05:08:44 -0500
From: "_ lumiere" (lumiere paris.com)
Subject: Walden, Peter S, Charlie, racism & kids
Walden and Peter Staudenmaier rightly want the unforthcoming Charlie
Morrison to pony up the goods on his view of Steiner's racist statements and
their interpretation, perpetuation and unquestioning belief by Anthroposophists
of today.
However, these arguments about Steiner-said-No-he-didn't (or at least he didn't
mean it) can go on for as long as there are people of opposing viewpoints and
new cannon-fodder from the Antroposophical rank and file to be
drafted into duty
against the heathens of the critics list -- and little will be
solved, proved or
progressed towards agreement.
But there is a larger question that gets lost in these historically and
contemporarily important, but ultimately academic, arguments about Steiner's
racism.
What about the children?
What about the beliefs of Steiner that are transmitted to the
children in Waldorf
schools, through an esoteric, occult, magical brainwashing curriculum parroted
by Steiner's acolytes and priests and priestesses? Otherwise known as
teachers -- a misnomer if ever there was one.
Steiner's genius in perpetuating his racist cosmology on humanity was that he
devised a ritual, myth-based, feel-good, white-race self-affirming
religion that
could be taught as a nominal pedagogy to chidren without arousing the alarums
of intelligent people.
In this he was very much like Hitler, as opposed to Lenin, Stalin, Mao or any
other tyrant who forced his world view on his subjects. Steiner, like
(at least the
early) Hitler, used symbolism and emotion over political and ideological will.
Steiner's subjects are lulled into believing they are not subjects at
all, not even
willing subjugants to a larger-than-they state or religion or ideology, but
free-thinking free people.
But what about the children?
It is at least possible that Steiner's racism becomes innate in
children who are
exposed to twelve or more years of his brainwashing. Innate in such a way that
as adults these people would blanch at the charge that they are racist.
How would this happen?
Just as Sharon has eludicated over the last two years the fundamentals of the
magical mystery school curriculum of Waldorf schools which inculcates
irrational thinking and produces minds ready to believe anything
uncritically, we
need to see a revelation of the catechism of racist fundamentalism which
inhabits the Waldorf curriculum. (We have seen only hints of it in the
mythology-as-history threads of the curriculum.)
There has never been a point-by-point, lesson-by-lesson, year-by-year analysis
of the racialist content of the Waldorf curriculum. This is because
it is hidden,
protected, waffled over, lied about and kept by the inner circle of
Anthroposphists
in Waldorf schools, unknown even to the ordinary teachers.
There needs to be an investigation in depth of the Waldorf curriculum to match
Sharon's (and the three Peters', and Dan's, and others') work on Steiner's
religion.
N'est-ce pas vrai?
AmitiÈ sincËre,
_lumiere
--
__________________________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 864
-- Topica Digest --
Re: steiner/vaccination
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Re: shifting the blame to the victim : was Re: Deaf
By mysplum earthlink.net
Linden Hill Happy Camper
By Gary GoodWinter.com
Test for comprehending of anthro-text
By klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com
Anthroposophy going mainstream
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Linden Hill Happy Camper
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Walden, Peter S, Charlie, racism & kids
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 08:33:21 -0500
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: steiner/vaccination
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BarleySinger wrote:
In my case it is because my entire family has problems with
chemical sensitivity
I do realize there are medical reasons such as your that some
people don't vaccinate, and I take them as the exception to the more
generalized opposition and suspicion about vaccines that I am
referring to. The contraindications are rarer than the anti-vaccine
lobby would have us think, but do exist.
Diana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 08:53:11 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: shifting the blame to the victim : was Re: Deaf
on 11/1/02 6:11 PM, BarleySinger at BarleySinger creative-interweb.com
wrote:
) If they have horrible heath problems because of the local chemical
plant it is
) again - their fault - not the fault of the person who polluted the water
) table, but the fault of the newborn, making it plain that in Anthroposophy
) people are not responsible for their action to harm others...it is always
) the fault of the person harmed. If your has cancer from pesticide
) exposure it is again, the kids fault, not the fault of the company that
) made the unsafe pesticide or the fault of the person who applied them in an
) unsafe way...but the fault of the kid who did nothing to make it
) happen....except according to Steiner it was a part of their Karma.
Sharon: Not in this case. Here's Steiner:
"It is a different matter if a man falls ill through working in a poisonous
atmosphere; this too may be a cause of illness but is not connected with the
inherent constitution of the physical body".
Sharon: Not to worry BarleySinger, it's not your fault you are sick and you
will be beautiful next time around (G). Beauty is a sign that you were
sickly in past life... are you beautiful now? (G)
Steiner: "No one who shudders at the unpleasantness of pain, who is
unwilling to bear pain can create in himself the foundations for wisdom;
indeed when we look deeper, we cannot really bemoan illnesses, for regarded
from a higher standpoint, from the standpoint of Eternity, they take on a
very different aspect. Illnesses calmly borne often appear in the next life
as a great physical beauty; great physical beauty in a human being is
acquired at the cost of illnesses in the preceeding life. Such is the
connection between impairment of the body through illness, particularly also
through external circumstances, and beauty.
The following words of the French writer, Fabre d'Olivet can be applied to
this very remarkable connection: "When we observe the life of the human
being, it often seems to be like the formation of the pearl in the oyster-
shell - the pearl can only come into being through disease". And so it is
actually in human life: Beauty is karmically connected with illness and is
their result. When I said, however, that a man who unfolds reprehensible
passions creates in himself the disposition to illness, it must be fully
realised that in this case it is a matter of inherent tendency to illnesses.
It is a different matter if a man falls ill through working in a poisonous
atmosphere; this too may be a cause of illness but is not connected with the
inherent constitution of the physical body" (64-65 Steiner, Ruolf. Theosophy
of the Rosicrucian 1907. Rudolf Steiner Press London reprint 1981).
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 11:40:08 -0500
From: Gary Bonhiver (Gary goodwinter.com)
Cc: SHARMAINEBARONE aol.com
Subject: Linden Hill Happy Camper
Sharmaine,
We don't have time to respond to every email we receive privately, so I've
posted your email to the Waldorf-Critics discussion list. Please feel free
to join the resulting conversation by joining waldorf-critics via the web
site:
http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/critics.html
What exactly do you mean by this...
) All private schools have the right and do act upon this in asking students
) and/or families that are being a negative force in the school's community.
Are you saying that people who have legitimate complaints are considered
"being negative" and should be forced out? Shouldn't a school and its
parent body have a cooperative and equal relationship, with the school eager
to hear about problems from parents so that they can be addressed? Or is
the school "better qualified" when it comes to raising your child?
Please join the discussion to expand on your thoughts! You are welcome here
even if your comments are "a negative force". And please invite Phyllis,
Mike and Kyle, Deirdre, Katy, and others from Linden Hill to join in and
tell us about how their school is different from the many other Waldorf
schools that we've collectively experienced and heard about.
...Gary
www.waldorfcritics.org Webmaster
----------
) From: SHARMAINEBARONE aol.com
) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:44:29 EST
) To: webmaster waldorfcritics.org
) Subject: (no subject)
)
) All private schools have the right and do act upon this in asking students
) and/or families that are being a negative force in the school's community. I
) am offended in your assumptions that the wool is being pulled over my eyes.
) I have two boys attending Linden Hill School in Wilton, CT. I find no
) anthroposophical cult opinions in practice. We are all of diverse religious
) backgrounds and each and every teacher respects that.
)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:12:01 +0000
From: Klaudia (klaudiaypma1960 hotmail.com)
Subject: Test for comprehending of anthro-text
walden wrote interesting quotes of racial doctrines of anthroposophy.
Due to walden's message I sent an email to some of my friends. Maybe
also at this list we could give this kind of hints about the main
contents of the message.
Here is my message for them:
Please find answers for following seven questions. Rudolf Steiner has
given the answers (see quotes below).
1. What happens to the soul, if person uses French language?
2. Why black people has well cerebellum?
3. Why African black people became as Indians when they moved to
America?
4. Why Indians will die out?
5. How mulatto-babies can be born to white european mothers even if they
never had sexual intercourse with black man?
6. What is the race of the future?
7. How clairvoyant power will be perished?
STEINER (1923) "No doubt about it, the soul becomes corrupted through
using
the French language...It is also possible at the present time that the
French will even ruin their own blood, the very element which has kept
their
language going as a corpse. That is a terrible thing the French people
are
doing to other people, the frightful cultural brutality of transplanting
black people to Europe. It affects France itself worst of all. This has
an
incredibly strong effect on the blood, the race. This will substantially
add
to French decadence. The French nation will be weakened as a race."
[Steiner, Rudolf. *Conferences with the Teachers of the Waldorf School
in
Stuttgart 1922 to 1923: Volume Three: Being the end of the Fourth Year*.
(1923) Trans. Pauline Wehrle. Forest Row, U.K.: Steiner Schools
Fellowship
Publications, 1988, pp. 87-88.]
"These blacks in Africa characteristically suck in, absorb, all
light and all heat from the cosmos. And, humans being humans, this
light and this heat from the cosmos cannot pass through the entire
body. It does not flow through the entire body, but it stops at the
skin. In this way, the complexion itself becomes black. Consequently,
a black in Africa is a human who absorbs and assimilates as much
light and heat from the cosmos as possible. As he does this, the
forces of the cosmos work throughout that human. Everywhere, he
absorbs light and heat, really everywhere. He assimilates them within
himself. There really must be something which helps him in this
assimilation. That something is mainly the cerebellum. This is why a
Negro has an especially well developed cerebellum. This is linked to
the spinal marrow; and they can assimilate all light and heat which a
human contains. As a consequence, especially the aspects which
pertain to the body and to metabolism are strongly developed in a
Negro. He has a strong sexual urge -as people call it-, strong
instincts. And as, with him, all which comes from the sun -light and
heat- really is at the skin's surface, all of his metabolism works as
if the sun itself is boiling in his inside. This causes his passions.
Within a Negro, cooking is going on all the time; and the cerebellum
kindles the fire. (...) And we, Europeans, we poor Europeans, we have
the thinking life, which resides in the head. (...) Therefore, Europe
has always been the starting point of everything which develops the
human entity in such a way that at the same time a relationship with
the outside world arises. (...)
"When Negroes go to the west, they cannot absorb as much light and
heat any more as they were used to in their Africa. (...) That is why
they turn copper red, they become Indians. That is because they are
forced to reflect a part of the light and heat. They turn shiny
copper red. They cannot keep up this copper red shining. That is why
the Indians die out in the West, they die because of their own nature
which does not get enough light and heat, they die because of the
earthly factor.(...)
"Really, it is the whites who develop the human factor within
themselves. Therefore they have to rely on themselves. When whites do
emigrate, they partly take on the characteristics of other areas, but
they die more as individuals than as a race. The white race is the
race of the future, the race that is working creatively with the
spirit."
[Steiner, March 3 1923, lecture to the workmen (GA 349 p. 67)]
"I am convinced that if we get yet another set of Negro novels and give
them to pregnant women to read, then Negroes do not have to come to
Europe
to conceive mulattos; just by reading Negro novels, half-blood children
will be born in Europe" (from Steiner's "Health and Illness").
"We have seen that blood united to blood in the case of but remotely
connected species of animals, kills; blood united to blood in the case
of
more closely allied species of animals does not kill. The physical
organism
of man survives when strange blood comes in contact with strange blood,
[except, of course, in the case of incompatible blood types, which
mutually
coagulate one another,] but clairvoyant power perishes under the
influence
of this mixing of blood, or exogamy." -- Rudolf Steiner (Occult
Significance
of Blood, 1906)
"The human individual belongs to a family, a nation, a race; his actions
in
this world depend on his belonging to such a totality. [. . .] Indeed,
in a
certain sense individuals are only the executive organs of these family
souls, racial spirits, and so forth. [. . .] Every individual gets his
tasks, in the truest sense of the word, assigned by the family soul, the
national soul, or the racial soul." (Steiner, GA 10, Dornach 1961, pp.
199-200) Toward the end of his life, Steiner again emphasized this
crucial
facet of anthroposophic thought: "One can only understand history and
all of
social life, including today's social life, if one pays attention to
people's racial characteristics. And one can only understand all that is
spiritual in the correct sense if one first examines how this spiritual
element operates within people precisely through the color of their
skin."
Steiner, Vom Leben des Menschen und der Erde (GA 349), Dornach 1980, p.
52.
The quote is from 1923.
"But since all men in different incarnations pass through the various
races,
there exists - even if it can be said against me that the European has a
lead in relation to the black and yellow race - no real disadvantage. In
such cases the truth is sometimes veiled, but you see that you with
Spiritual Science come to remarkable insights."
(Steiner, Rudolf. 1910. The Mission of Folk-Souls. Translation from the
German original, published in paperback 1974 by Redolf Steiner Verlag,
Dornach. Fourth Lecture, The Development of the Races and of the
Cultures)
"Finally, the abnormal Spirits of Form who have their centre in Saturn
work
indirectly via all the other systems into the glandular system. In the
Saturn race, therefore, in everything to which we must ascribe the
Saturn
character, we must expect to find the combination of the forces leading
to
the twilight of mankind, forces which set the seal upon its development
and
sow the seeds of its ultimate decline. This action and its effect upon
the
glandular system can be seen in the American Indian race and was the
cause
of its ultimate extinction.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:51:36 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Anthroposophy going mainstream
The Anthroposophic Press has announced a slick book obviously aimed
at improving the marketing of Steiner's philosophy to the New Age and
self-improvement crowd. See:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0880105070/ref=s_e5
The blurb:
For most of us, life is often a humdrum course of the same-old and
the nothing-new. We might dream of running away to exotic lands or
retreating to distant monasteries, but the whirligig of life never
seems to let us out of its clutches.
Michael Lipson offers a fresh way of looking at this old predicament.
Using exercises pioneered by the great spiritual teacher Rudolf
Steiner, he gives ancient, yet very timely, keys to freshening our
perceptions and opening our horizons.
The six steps on this stairway are thinking, doing, feeling, loving,
opening, and thanking. If they sound simple, that's because-in a
way-they are. They show us how to infuse consciousness and
mindfulness even into ordinary and overlooked parts of life.
Practiced for just a few minutes a day, they can reveal the surprise
in the universe that is usually hidden by stale, habitual attitudes.
This book will open your life to the surprising profoundness of the
simple and near-at-hand.
About the Author
Michael Lipson, Ph.D. is a clinical psychologist practicing in Great
Barrington, Massachusetts. He is the translator of Rudolf Steiner's
Intuitive Thinking as a Spiritual Path and Georg K¸hlewind's From
Normal to Healthy. Dr. Lipson's work combines the insights of Rudolf
Steiner with those of Zen Buddhism. He teaches meditation widely and
writes on issues of consciousness, human development, and meditative
practice.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:50:55 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Cc: SHARMAINEBARONE aol.com
Subject: Re: Linden Hill Happy Camper
Sharmaine, you wrote to PLANS,
) ) I
) ) am offended in your assumptions that the wool is being pulled
over my eyes.
)) I have two boys attending Linden Hill School in Wilton, CT. I find no
)) anthroposophical cult opinions in practice. We are all of
))diverse religious
) ) backgrounds and each and every teacher respects that.
But Anthroposophy teaches that "the Christ spirit" is a "sun spirit."
Your children pray to the sun every morning. Do you see any
connection? Would all Christians be comfortable with this if they
were fully aware? Would non-Christians?
Are you aware that some of the things taught as science in Waldorf
are not science at all, but Anthroposophical doctrine? For example,
have your children had the fourth-grade "man and animal" lesson?
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 22:31:19 -0800
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Walden, Peter S, Charlie, racism & kids
lumiere wrote:
) Walden and Peter Staudenmaier rightly want the unforthcoming Charlie
) Morrison to pony up the goods on his view of Steiner's racist statements
and
) their interpretation, perpetuation and unquestioning belief by
Anthroposophists
) of today.
)
) However, these arguments about Steiner-said-No-he-didn't (or at least he
didn't
) mean it) can go on for as long as there are people of opposing viewpoints
and
) new cannon-fodder from the Antroposophical rank and file to be drafted
into duty
) against the heathens of the critics list -- and little will be solved,
proved or
) progressed towards agreement.
)
) But there is a larger question that gets lost in these historically and
) contemporarily important, but ultimately academic, arguments about
Steiner's
) racism.
)
) What about the children?
)
) What about the beliefs of Steiner that are transmitted to the children in
Waldorf
) schools, through an esoteric, occult, magical brainwashing curriculum
parroted
) by Steiner's acolytes and priests and priestesses? Otherwise known as
) teachers -- a misnomer if ever there was one. (snip)
Exactly. " What about the children," indeed. That is what we need to
focus on. I think that by shedding as much light (lumiere!) on
Anthroposophy/Waldorf from as many sources as possible - the children will
ultimately be well served. Obviously, many parents do not see Waldorf in
the same light as many critics. Many parents have simply not had the
opportunity (or taken it) to understand what it is they have involved their
children in. I have walked in those shoes as have many here.
I believe we need to explore Steiner's beliefs including the
"Steiner-said-No-he-didn't (or at least he didn't
mean it)" angle as it is part of the process - albeit a time consuming and
very frustrating process. I remember my days of wearing rose colored
glasses whilst ignoring the *uncomfortable stuff* at our old school. I just
wanted *those quotes* (for example) to go away because they nagged at me and
would ultimately force me to rethink my sense of *community.* I wanted to
accept that I had "taken them out of context" when I knew darn well I was
fooling myself. But that is what I was told. "You mustn't take Steiner out
of context." Right.
What was that school really all about? What about the children?
I still grapple with these questions and hope to help shed light on them. I
am sincerely hoping that the Charlies of the anthro world can help us shed
light from their particular angle.
-Walden
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 865
-- Topica Digest --
smallpox vaccination
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Re: Linden Hill Happy Camper
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Linden Hill Happy Camper
By mysplum earthlink.net
Man and Animal Lesson
By qrejy hotmail.com
Toronto Waldorf School and government standards
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Toronto Waldorf School and government standards
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: encountering Steiner's racial doctrines
By charlie morrison5.fsnet.co.uk
Re: Linden Hill Happy Camper
By Gary GoodWinter.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:18:35 -0500
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: smallpox vaccination
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Steiner on smallpox:
"Suppose that a great number of people had felt impelled - due to
their unloving attitude to their fellow human beings - to absorb
certain infectious substances in order to succumb to an epidemic. Let
us further suppose that we could do something about this epidemic. In
that case we would prevent the outer physical nature from expressing
the unloving disposition while failing to remove the inner
inclination to unlovingness. What we need to envisage now is the
following: by removing the outer organ of unlovingness we actually
incur an obligation of working into the soul in such a way as to
remove its inclination to unlovingness. The organ of unlovingness is
killed in the most complete sense - in the outer physical sense -
through the smallpox vaccination. Spiritual scientific research has
shown, for example, that smallpox developed during a time when the
general inclination towards egotism and unlovingness reached a
particular climax. That is when smallpox emerged in the outer !
organism. This is a fact. In anthroposophy it is our duty to speak truthfully."
" ... Let us assume that many epidemics, communal causes of illness,
can be traced to the fact that victims are seeking to remove what
they have karmically fostered within themselves. This is the case,
for instance, with smallpox which is the organ of unlovingness.
Although we may be in a position to remove the possibility of this
disease, the cause of unlovingness would still remain, and the souls
in question would then be forced to seek another way for karmic
compensation either in this or in another incarnation."
What is going to happen in the Waldorf schools, if there is a mass
smallpox vaccination campaign in the US? Are they really going to
advise parents not to vaccinate against smallpox?
If they advise against vaccination, they will probably focus on the
fact that the smallpox vaccine is indeed risky, and contraindicated
for medical reasons for a large number of people. Will they also
explain to parents that if there were ever a bioterrorist attack,
those of us who contract smallpox will be actually "absorb[ing]
certain infectious substances in order to succumb to an epidemic" on
purpose? If you or your children don't need smallpox to counteract
your karmic tendency to unlovingness, you needn't worry, you won't
succumb anyway.
Diana
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:54:14 -0800
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Cc: SHARMAINEBARONE aol.com
Subject: Re: Linden Hill Happy Camper
Sharmaine, thanks for your reply. You wrote,
)Why do you spend so much of your time on the Waldorf Schools when
)there are so many other groups in America that could use your
)talents to make this a better world.
I spend time on Waldorf education because I'm a former Waldorf
parent, I'm interested in it, and I've been studying it for thirteen
years.
)Linden Hill doesn't want to convert anyone to Anthrosophy, it's
)there if a person wants to educate themselves on what it is all
)about and then take what feels right to them and leave what doesn't.
That's fine with me. But how much do you tell parents about
Anthroposophy *before* they put their kids in Linden Hill?
)As far as my children singing to the sun in the morning, they are
)singing for the joy it brings their soul. I teach my children God
)is in everything, why not the sun?
Sounds like your family's religion is compatible with Anthroposophy.
It's good you've found a school that complements your spirituality.
)One thing I know for sure: my children are safe and loved while at school.
We hear a lot of complaints about chronic bullying that Waldorf
teachers refuse to remedy (it's the victim's karma, apparently, to
suffer), and unsupervised playgrounds. I think this is because the
Waldorf system is very unselective about who they hire as teachers,
and doesn't give any training in classroom management. You're lucky
your school has a culture that protects the children; in Waldorf that
seems to be a matter of luck, not design.
)I don't have to worry about guns, knives and violence entering their lives.
I don't think it's fair to imply that schools outside the Waldorf
fold have guns, knives, and violence. I suspect that if you compared
your school with a nearby private school with similar tuition, you
wouldn't find guns or knives there, either.
Unfortunately, there *is* a lot of violence at Waldorf schools; in
the curriculum (see the Norse myths in fourth grade), on unsupervised
playgrounds, and by out-of-control teachers.
)Why would you want to try and destroy this for my family?
Please read the mission statement of PLANS, Inc.:
http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/mission.html
We have no problem with the existence of Waldorf education. We're
trying to make it more honest about its religious nature.
You didn't answer my question about whether your children had done
the fourth-grade "Man and Animal" lesson block.
Sincerely, Dan Dugan
Secretary, PLANS, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:46:54 -0800
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Linden Hill Happy Camper
on 11/4/02 10:54 AM, Dan Dugan at dan dandugan.com wrote:
) Sharmaine, thanks for your reply. You wrote,
)
)) Why do you spend so much of your time on the Waldorf Schools when
)) there are so many other groups in America that could use your
)) talents to make this a better world.
Sharon: I spend time on Waldorf because my family was duped by a Waldorf
school. We were told it was art based and nonsectarian, when in fact it was
neither of the two. I am trying to make this world a better place by
insisting that Waldorf be honest to parents about Steiner's esoteric
religion that informs all classroom activity.
)
)) Linden Hill doesn't want to convert anyone to Anthrosophy, it's
)) there if a person wants to educate themselves on what it is all
)) about and then take what feels right to them and leave what doesn't.
Sharon: The most successful vehicle for the dissemination of Anthroposophy
is the network of Waldorf Schools established in accordance with the
founder¼s precepts - though many parents have little, if any, historic
understanding of Steiner or his religion, Anthroposophy. The Waldorf School
Movement is superficially perceived as a trendy, alternative education
system because it is promoted as nonsectarian, art based, multicultural,
scientific, new education: critical investigation, however, reveals to the
contrary that these schools are instead centers of occult initiation -
modern mystery schools - where every aspect of the curriculum is rooted in
Anthroposophy and its incorporated magic and rituals. Anthroposophists have
a mission to re-spiritualize the earth al la Steiner. Children are subjected
to Anthroposophy in the classroom, often without parental knowledge or
sanction. I need only look at my daughter's Waldorf lessons to verify these
facts. Had the school been more honest with my family about who they are and
what their esoteric mission is, I would not have chosen a Waldorf school for
my child, and I would not be spending countless hours working to get Waldorf
to be honest to parents, and out of the public coffirs.
)) As far as my children singing to the sun in the morning, they are
)) singing for the joy it brings their soul. I teach my children God
)) is in everything, why not the sun?
Sharon: I don't believe in Christ the Sun Being so why would I want my child
to sing to it? Why was I not told that my child was being made to pray to
Steiner's Christ? I object. I reject volkisch Sun worship, makes me queasy -
I'm not crazy about the Aryan supremacy connection that is part of Steiner's
religion.
)) One thing I know for sure: my children are safe and loved while at school.
Sharon: You are parroting Waldorf's myth, as if Waldorf owns these
qualities!
)) I don't have to worry about guns, knives and violence entering their lives.
Sharon: I feel the same way about my child's present school, but who can be
certain? My child's Waldorf school was much less safe than her present
school - Waldorf had sharp knives, flames, germ bowls, low vaccination rate,
out of control classrooms and playground. There *have* been incidences of
violence at Waldorf schools, even a case in CO where a W pupil killed a
policeman.
)
)) Why would you want to try and destroy this for my family?
Sharon: Who's trying to destroy "this"for your family or Waldorf? The
questions are really: Why would Waldorf try to destroy the First Ame